Why exactly was the revelation that your soul gets taken out of your body and put in the soul gem such a big fucking deal? A magical girl can still eat, sleep, and feel all the same sensations exactly as she could when she wasn't a magical girl. In fact it's made clear with Mami that there's virtually no difference. I don't think they ever even try to rationalize it, it's bad "just because."
>Why exactly was the revelation that your soul gets taken out of your body and put in the soul gem such a big fucking deal?
When dealing with people that think less than they feel don't expect a logical answer because the cause is illogical itself.
Because someone can grab your soul and quite literally hold your life in their hands? All someone has to do is grab it and drive off and from that point on you're an eternal consciousness unable to move or interact with anything in any way for an indefinite period of time.
You really think you could just shrug that off?
Well, you just need to wear it as a ring, like they always do, and don't get it off no matter what. Sure, they could cut off your hand, but you have magical powers that should prevent that from happening.
>able to survive fatal injuries, possibly full body destruction if the gem stays intact
>able to turn on and off perception of pain
>body drops 'dead' once the gem gets some distance away from it
>functions just the same as it always has
You're don't have to be a 14 years old emo girl to understand you're not human anymore.
Yeah, you can do all you want to prevent it, but if you forget or they get it somehow, then what? You're helpless in every possible way.
You don't see how this could possibly cause a 14 year old girl some stress?
Magical girls are wizards.
Soulgems are phylacteries.
It is well-known that wizard's first thought of immortality leads to becoming a lich.
Storing your soul in a phylactery is required to become a lich.
Do the math.
>You're helpless in every possible way.
Just like you are if someone stabs you in the heart, or ties you down while you sleep, or thousands of things. There's no fucking reason to get stressed over that more than any other thing. It's not like they are fighting someone that has enough of a brain to get their souls away from them. Witches are not that smart, and they don't have any other enemy.
>able to survive fatal injuries, possibly full body destruction if the gem stays intact
>>able to turn on and off perception of pain
So superpowers, basically. You know, the things they pretty much signed up for when they decided to become magical girls. Doesn't warrant flipping your shit.
The only issue is
>body drops 'dead' once the gem gets some distance away from it
Which doesn't seem to be all that much of a problem given that most magical girls seem to keep it on their person at all times.
So you're saying that you expect these girls, states to be in the most emotional state of their lives, to take the revelation that they could have their soul physically stolen at any moment in time while fighting these creatures that turn their loved ones into suicidal, mindless minions, and to be completely fine with all of that, and handle it all logically with a cool head.
Are you fucking autistic?
What the fuck is a "soul"?
You act like it's a given that the soul even exists or that there's some concrete agreed upon definition of what it is.
As for the other part, they were already aware of that when they became magical girls.
You people don't get this.
You think it's stupid because it's fiction to you and the characters can live or die and it doesn't matter. To them it's a reality that they are now trapped in, until they either die or are turned into a monster and murdered by their friends.
ya it seems like something girls would care more about.
Madoka killing her best friend on accident was a damn good scene, so don't complain
>So superpowers, basically
>the things they pretty much signed up for
Not really, they didn't. They signed up because they wanted their wish granted. Didn't ask questions which was all right with QB since girls always flip out when they learn the truth.
Of course it comes out as a shock, and you can act however you want. But when you see your best friend being unable to face that shit, getting depressed, and getting worse as time goes by, you need to cool your head and think it properly in order to help her. Telling Sayaka that she still deserved to love and be loved shouldn't have been that hard.
Who says that magical girls aren't just
Yeah, I'm sure most people watch their friends be eaten alive by supernatural monsters who exist to drive people to suicide. I'm sure that's what their life was like before this all started.
It was established pretty concretely in the show, you stupid faggot.
I meant the whole ordeal of having an immortal regenerating body and being dependent on a soul gem. The fights are a complete mess and getting a bodypart cut off easily should be easy, not that it happens in the show though. Would you rather that bodypart be gone or just come back somehow?
That answer is obvious
It's really easy to say that as someone sitting at a computer, talking about a fictional character who you don't care about.
Why do you autistic losers expect every character in every show to basically behave like Spock?
Why didn't Madoka just calm down?
Why didn't Homura just abandon her obsession with Madoka?
Why didn't Mami just get friends?
Why didn't Sayaka just dump her boyfriend?
Why didn't Kyouko just become rich?
Why didn't QB just use Spiral Energy instead of Grief Seeds to reverse entropy?
Sorry, but everyone was so painfully explicit about the dangers of becoming a magical girl to both Madoka and Sayaka that they should have at least thought ONCE in their lives that 'hmm, fighting might be dangerous' especially after fattie got her head bitten of.
Not even a menstruating Sayaka with half a ton of sand in her vagina should think that the soul gem deal is great for magical girls.
Because he was trying to express his impression of this thread in a jovial and light-hearted tone.
Again, really easy to say that when you've never had anything like that happen to you. Since when are teenage girls known for logically reacting to Alien technology hijacking their bodies? Since when are teenage girls known for their foresight and ability to consider the consequences of their actions in a calm and logical manner?
Because bitchyaka doesn't understand the difference between a zombie and a lich.
Well, I think some of the issues are that we don't exactly get shown how different from human being a "Magical Girl" is.
The transfer of their soul/consciousness/"self" into the gem is necessary so that a transformation can occur to their body, the kind that makes them fit to fight witches.
It is possible that:
1) They don't age and will not age.
2) They don't have the same biological functions/capabilities (and thus are incapable of "love"/family/etc).
3) Their bodies are not really literally alive, as in, a connection of living cells that are dividing, etc, but rather, they are another form of existence fueled by magic.
It is also obvious that:
1) Being a magical girl means that your soul/consciousness is constantly being corrupted.
2) The only way to purify against this corruption is to kill witches.
So, the girls are well aware that they will have to be in head-severing danger in order to live on a continual basis.
This is before they learn of their eventual fate implied by 3) When too corrupted, magical girls become witches.
So in the long term their survival ultimately depends on assuring that other human beings become magical girls and go mad so that they can be murdered. If the cycle stops, they all die.
No, he's not. He just did when they signed the contract, and then left their souls alone. And the only thing he did was put them into a gem. Not that he altered them in any way or anything.
You're thinking about this too hard.
If I tell a teenage girl
>It's dangerous, you shouldn't do it
>It's dangerous, you shouldn't do it
>It's dangerous, you shouldn't do it
>It's dangerous, you shouldn't do it
She WILL at least think once about it being dangreous or not. Especially when you have fairly close relationship with Mami like that.
>And the only thing he did was put them into a gem. Not that he altered them in any way or anything.
That's exactly what "altering" them is. The soul is not naturally in the form of gemstone.
>there are people IN THIS THREAD who think you're still human once your soul has left your body.
The head's already a pretty vital point to begin with, for anyone. I mean sure maybe possibly a magical could grow it back but I think they would rather not lose it in the first place
If I take your liver out of you and put it in a box, I'm not altering your liver, I'm just moving it. Of course, this would be bad to you, but if I tell you that it will work the same by magic, and that in exchange, you gain superpowers, what exactly would you dislike about the situation?
Okay, well, you're more painfully unfunny than that guy and...
You're being a complete edge-master.
The existence of the Soul Gem as a container for a soul is spelled out in the universe. It doesn't matter what you believe or think about whether or not souls exist in our world, because in the world of Madoka it is made obvious that the soul exists, because it is what is inside the Gem.
Your own thoughts on what a soul is, whether it does or does not exist, whether or not "we are all just chemical reactions" or whatever god-awful thing you want to say... like you are a child at the adult's table when it comes to a very long historical conversation. You can google Philosophy of Mind to get started, but honestly, unless you're ready to do 10+ years of reading from a lot of very very smart people who are also difficult to understand... you're not going to be able to say anything legitimate or even "original".
The exact words in your post are basically a meme.
Souls aren't livers. They don't ordinarily have a physical form.
If you were Kyubey, you would also neglect to tell me that you were going to do any of this with my liver to begin with, you'd simply tell me about the superpowers part.
>Not having your soul gem surgically implanted in your body as soon as you find out so you don't lose it
>Just like you are if someone stabs you in the heart, or ties you down while you sleep, or thousands of things.
No, because in any of these situations you will, at least, at some point, die.
If I were to throw your soul gem into the Marianas Trench, you'd go on existing, with no senses, no way to interact with the world, and no way to kill yourself, for *eternity*.
A guy got trapped in an elevator for 41 *hours*, and it profoundly affected his life. Had Homu not gone and got Sayaka's gem, she could have been discorporated for weeks. Had Homu actually intended to hurt her, she could have inflicted a fate worse than Hell.
Before the revelation, it's thought that the Soul Gem is just source for their magical power. IIRC there's nothing before that that alludes to the existence of a soul.
Oh, and what pointless thing to say. There are plenty of "very smart people" who also materialists.
>Gem is broken midway through surgery
Not him but I'm pretty sure doctor wouldn't bang on it with a hammer.
>Getting a medical professional to go along with this idea
Do it yourself.
Turn off you perception of pain, cut, put gem inside, ducktape the wound and wait for regen to kick in.
You could probably smuggle things that way too until they roentgen the shit out of you.
oh for fucks sake, you have no problem with emotion, which is just chemicals in your brain, being an incredible powersource, but you complain about calling a megukas personality a soul
Wikipedia has a lot of definitions so I'll give you the one that is the most likely to make Sakaya go nuts
"In his discussions of rational psychology Immanuel Kant (1724–1804) identified the soul as the "I" in the strictest sense"
Long time ago. Not sure if the guy ever finished the story though.
>he doesn't believe in cat aliens that give people superpowers to hold off entropy
Yeah, real SPIRITUAL people such as myself care only about semantics!
So there are people approaching this logically who say the girls or Urobuchi or both are idiots; and there are people who say it's just the way girls would react.
As far as I understood, the sole reason Kyuubey gives for giving the soul a physical form is that it makes the body less fragile during battles, allows for regeneration and allows the girl to directly protect her soul. So in my understanding, it actually isn't necessary to create a soul gem at all. I don't know how purifying the soul would have worked if it were still immaterial, but I'm sure there could be a way of doing it.
What I'm trying to say is: Kyuubey is the impersonation of logical, rational and highly pragmatic thinking. So if you're saying, in a logical way this is no big deal and actually beneficial – congratulations, you just took Kyuubeys point. If you're saying the girls are idiots – congratulations, you just took Kyuubeys point.
He even says he never tells anyone because they always make a big fuzz about it, but he keeps creating the soul gem anyway because it is, from his (a logical) point of view, highly beneficial to them during battle (which he justifies with them having agreed to live a life of battling).
>the sole reason
You're missing a pretty big and obvious one here too.
I think the issue is that the "soul" is an extremely nebulous concept. It would have made more sense if the existence of the soul was well established in the madokaverse as fact.
not as great as any of the other girls would have been with the same experience behind them. Well maybe except for Mami. Being lead by your heart is nice, but so much as to constantly jump to conclusions...
As far as I remember, they receive the most energy from the transformation from normal girl to magical girl and then from magical girl to witch. I doubt both processes require a physically present soul.
(However, I'm not sure. The series doesn't say anything about this, does it?)
Purely speculative. There's nothing to suggest that the others probably wouldn't have been much different anyway, and for the purposes of the movie they couldn't have been.
Then there's Nagisa, who herself went through similar experiences but doesn't give two fucks about anything that isn't cheese anyway.
I always assumed the soul being in your body was some kind of cultural thing that I wasn't picking up on.
As soon as I heard the twist I was like WAIT SHIT DOES THAT MEAN I CAN USE MAGIC TO MAKE MYSELF A CYBORG RAIDEN REVENGEANCE BODY?
Different strokes or some shit.
of course it's speculative if it isn't shown, but you can't argue that she has a great personality because her perfected version is great. We compare where comparison can be made, and Rebellion's Sayaka just can't be compared to anyone - well, except for Nagisa, but she's only there to be Mami's imouto anyway. So yeah, nothing will change in how people see blue
Yeah, it's all I could come up with.
Most Americans I know would gladly take a robot arm or put on a vampire mask if it meant they could have superpowers and wouldn't really give a shit if they weren't "human" anymore.
That's why I figured there must be some kind of weird Japanese cultural thing about how not having your soul in your body instantly makes you a zombie monster or some weird shit. I know I wouldn't give a damn if my soul weren't in my body if it meant that I could sculpt it in to something aesthetically preferable and FUCKING INVINCIBLE.
>Madoka aired in Australia 2 years ago.
I feel old and busted.
>weird Japanese cultural thing about how not having your soul in your body instantly makes you a zombie monster or some weird shit
Well in the west when the soul leaves the body you're dead, or if you're fa/tg/uy and trap it in some jewelery you're a lich.
I meant more along the lines of the offer QB was making turning you in to something less than human, rather than more than human.
Who wouldn't want to be more than human? I'd put my soul in a rock and become a meat puppet in a heartbeat.
Of course, that wasn't really the point. The whole point of the Magical Girl thing was to turn magical girls in to witches, so of course Kyubey would actively seek out people that would lose their shit at the revelation instead of people that would be okay with it. He wanted the revelation to cause a BSOD and for a witch to happen. If he went out and found people that would gladly shed their humanity in a heartbeat in exchange for power, he wouldn't get anywhere with his plan.
> abandoning your humanity for power
>to something less than human, rather than more than human
I think the issue here was the whole "not human anymore" part, compounded by it being a surprise rather something that was discussed with them in the first place
Kyoko seemed fine with it. She didn't go nuts after the revelation happened. It seems like only Sayaka and Mami were the ones ever to be upset with the revelation.
Homura's a bit of a grey area. She knew and was probably pissed off by it but she was too driven by revenge and wanting to stick it Madoka's pooper to go in to despair mode over it.
>Kyoko seemed fine with it.
Kyouko was just as upset as the rest at first, and was the first one to use the word "zombie" in regards to it.
On the other hand she was quick to accept it later as her life was already a shitbucket to her and one more thing probably wasn't going to make it any worse
>implying that homura's intentions were pure enough to want to sire children
>implying that homura wanted to make love to madoka instead of fucking her
It's like you didn't even watch the show.
Kyubey was cold and logical. The only thing he did wrong was lying by omission.
If he had presented the whole case upfront he still could have gotten "sales," so to speak. Hell, he could have even said "If you aren't careful you could turn in to a witch" if he worded it right. He could have literally just been upfront and said "If your soul gem gets too impure, a witch will grow inside of it, explode your soul gem, and kill you. So don't let it get impure."
But, of course, that wasn't the point. He wanted witches to happen, so he omitted the shadier stuff and left it for surprises.
Becoming a magical girl is actually a pretty fucking fair deal, and if Kyubey had presented the facts in their entirety upfront he wouldn't have been a bad guy. Once you know the facts, being a magical girl seems like it'd be a piece of cake. The two things Kyubey doesn't tell you, "your soul is in your soul gem" and "if your soul gem gets corrupted it kills you and a witch pops out" are two entirely manageable downsides if you know about them.
Way to miss the point yourself.
My point is that despite being a shady asshole, being a magical girl isn't a raw deal at all. It's ridiculously fair. If Kyubey wasn't intentionally leaving out the two upsetting things from the initial deal, he would be offering:
>a free wish
with the only downside being that you occasionally have to kill a witch or two to keep your soul gem pure.
But, again, that wasn't the point. He wanted people to turn in to witches.
All I'm pointing out is that despite his malicious intentions, what he offered was incredibly fair and if you were okay with the soul thing then you'd be getting a free ticked to being a fucking sick lich.
It's a total paradigm shift. Even you yourself think of your existence in the term of soul+body due to the culture you've been raised in, even if you don't believe in the existence of souls.
Clearly you haven't read cosmic horror or pessimist literature.
so soul gems are essentially puppeteers and the bodies are the puppets right
imagine a magical girl was aware of this
do you think she could extend her soul to other objects and control them
do you think
she could control skeletons
>what he offered was incredibly fair
It isn't fair if he's going out of his way to lie to the victim what he's offering to begin with.
If you were "okay with the soul thing" he would never approach you in the first place.
Homura isn't special to her, never was. Everyone else means more to her than some evil stalker who ruined her life. She won't forgive her and will send her to rot in hell alone forever.
To be fair, if Mami's word is anything to go by, being a magical girl is a very hefty time investment. You may be forced to spend much less time with those you care about or on hobbies you enjoy.
Yeah, but compare that to Kyouko, who lived her life incredibly leisurely and used magic for her own personal gain. Kyouko probably only killed witches as-needed and had a stockpile of grief seeds.
Mami only had a hefty time investment because she played the part of the superhero and went out of her way to kill familiars as well. Not only that, but I imagine her flashy fighting style wasted a lot of unnecessary magic.
Mami's a qt who I would love to hug but she's not really relevant to the plan of becoming an immortal, immoral scumbag.
Homura isn't a person, she's an entity of evil without hope that must be purged. Madoka never cared about her, she only tried helping her like she would anyone, but Homura is so awful it bit her in the ass. She will have her revenge.
She lied about being best friends, that was nothing more than a thank you in order to give her incentive to move on with her life. Madoka never cared about her otherwise and will hate her now for destroying her hope.
Homura loves Madoka more than life itself, and Homura is Madoka's best friend.
Only her best friend.
Homura and Madoka could have nasty grotesque sex and Homura could be smoking a cigar next to Madoka in bed and Madoka would say "Wow, that sure was something weird for two friends to do!" And Homura just smokes her cigar and cries.
Something that doesn't exist gets taken out of your body and gets put in a gem.
Kids do it all the time, it's nothing, really.
Madoka isn't retarded. Sayaka and Hitomi are her friends, Homura was her mental patient. She is a saint and wanted to help this rejected dyke get a better life. Homura never loved her, she was obsessed with her and protecting her. She hates everything about Madoka that she thought was worth protecting originally. She is pure evil and Madoka will never love her. Madoka will tell her she regrets saving her and that she never meant anything to her before ending her life.
>She lied about being best friends,
FUCK YOU for calling Madokami liar.
I will hunt you down and I will break your arms, your legs and kick your nose in so deep you'll shit bone splinters.
Your little pretend grudge show you do to get anons' attention is not an excuse.
i will find you and you will suffer.
>thinking that an all-powerful goddess is limited to petty mortal fucking like pegging
>implying that Madoka isn't inventing raunchy new methods of fucking in magical girl heaven
Why are the ancient aliens baffled that a great deal of creatures on Earth possess emotions?
Why are they so rare? What is the point of emotions and the soul from an evolutionary point of view? Kyubey's race had no need them.
You're a fool if you think Homura meant anything to her. She was just a poor girl who needed a friend to turn her shitty life around and nothing more. Madoka cared about Sayaka, not Homura. They were never friends no matter how much Homura tried to make Madoka hers.
I wish I had a comfy cape.
>What is the point of emotions and the soul from an evolutionary point of view?
It's the universe's way of circumventing heat death.
The incubators just sped up the process by creating the magical girl system.
You see there's a thing calling empathy, it is part of human social ability to understand other people.
When people "lack" it, they are unable to get into someone else's poisition and understand their thoughts.
To begin with, soul gems means that your body is no longer your body, it's just a walking meatbag that you control.
It is a big deal, they have to keep soul gems very carefully, or they might die, and they have to live like that the whole life.
Imagine that you become a cyborg all of sudden, while you still alive, it will not be the same anymore.
And here we have young teenage girl, idealist girl, who have no idea what kind of consequnces making a wish would make,
because they never being told what exactly will happend with them after they become magical girls and such revelations are not a good thing.
Also, there's element of how Sayaka was viewing herself, it is not just because of soul gem she become depressed, it is because she start to doubting if she was actually a selfless hero, and not just a selfish girl.
So having one bad news mixed with another giving us such results.
It wasn't just the emotions themselves apparently, it's the notion that human beings have such strong ones alongside their relatively short lifespans
Incubators don't possess them now but perhaps they did long ago in their own history, who knows.
They probably exhibit entropy defying properties but at such a mininscule level that it really doesn't make a difference.
It just happens that teenage girls have the appropriate psyche that would allow massive amounts of energy to be created if the incubators were to tamper with their karmic thingamajig. The incubators also have to account for the energy waste of galactic space faring societies.
Rebellion's OP is the best thing about it, seeing Homura miserable and forgotten all alone with only her delusions to keep her company, with everyone else happy without her. Should have been the real ending.
This is not about meta discussion of what "soul is" nor do I want to contribute something to it, it is about reasons and thoughts character have, why she did what she did, why she think that way etc.
The rest I live to OP or anyone who still have such question.
Nothing you said really gives a good explanation for that though. A soul is a soul, and whether it controls you from inside you our outside you shouldn't really matter.
I understand Sayaka's reasons for being upset, I just think her reaction to having not having her soul in her body anymore was extremely overblown.
I don't remember if it was in the anime or one of the spin-offs or games or what, but his answer was "You won't be able to fight anymore!"
They carry them in their nails most of the time.
Good for the guy that needs to pay his rent.
Well, wouldn't it be awful to find out that you are actually just a piece of jewelry that operates your body within close proximity?
You stop growing, you can't change your body at all and if you ever lose your soul gem your body will start to decompose like the corpse it is.
Despite being able to function like a normal human all those things make it a pretty horrifying revelation.
>Well, wouldn't it be awful to find out that you are actually just a piece of jewelry that operates your body within close proximity?
Like others pointed out this thread, the existence of a soul essentially makes you a meat puppet, regardless of where it is.
>You stop growing, you can't change your body at all.
Where is this stated?
Mami tells them that they have to cleanse their gems in order to keep using magic - whether she puzzled that one out on her own or asked QB and got a vague answer is up for speculation. QB also gives some nebulous warnings about needing grief seeds to keep fighting. At any rate, that was enough of an answer to satisfy them until it was too late.
>You stop growing, you can't change your body at all
Magical girls have, in all biological respects, normal bodies. It's not stated anywhere that they do not, so there is no reason to assume otherwise. Side material by Inu Curry confirms this.
We never see Homura age and perhaps that's where the confusion begins. Clearly her physical body isn't making the jump every time. With every rewind, she begins anew in her "just got released from the hospital" body.
>Where is this stated?
It's not, but for some reason a lot of people have convinced themselves that it must be true, despite Mami and Kyouko appearing significantly younger in their flashback scenes.
IIIRC, Mami phrased it as "re-charging" your soul gem. She was under the impression that the cleansing process was re-charging it and that it getting corrupted was actually just the magic running out.
I reckon that either Mami puzzled that out herself, or that it's a common misconception among Magical Girls that Kyubey or any of his kin have ever bothered to correct.
Kyubey doesn't lie, he omits. "It recharges your soul gem" is a lie.
People are not smart.
They assume because Homura never aged through out all here time loops that no magic girl can age. But Homura is obviously a special case.
It's not really wrong, as such. It's true that they can't keep using their magic if their soul gem runs out, and based on Sayaka's reactions it seems like having a depleted soul gem is also physically exhausting and/or makes you crazy.
Because she doesn't physically go back, genius. The fact that she wakes up in the hospital wearing hospital clothes rather than her school uniform or magical girl outfit each time should have tipped you off.
Sayaka's soul gem wasn't depleted, it was corrupted. It was the fact that it was full of witch fart gas that was making her crazy.
Because Sayaka was already a weak magical girl, blowing through magic like she was opened a floodgate for fart gas which turned her in to a witch in like two seconds.
I think it's important to note that "I'm a zombie" wasn't the sole contributing factor to Sayaka's depression. It was just one of the several issues that made her feel like shit.
She fixes her eyes with magic, you think she can't get ripped with magic too?
Once she understands that her body can be molded with magic, she is able to remedy her shitty physical condition immediately.
She can't grow herself any titties though.
That can only be granted with wishes.
Or maybe she just understands that she looks best as the slender beauty she already is.
Because she got better at using magic. Why are you trying to push the theory that she physically goes back in time? There is absolutely nothing in the story that needs that to happen in order to be explained, and it would only open up plot holes. Like the hospital clothes.
cuz now some dumbass can "accidentally" drop your soul gem in the ocean and
have cake tea partywith your body
i think the bigger issue is that now that their soul has been removed and shoved into a pretty rock, the process is irreversible; once you become a magical girl, there's no going back.
not that sayaka seemed to care about that; for her it was mostly a standard fourteen-year-old girl's EW I'M A ZOMBIE THAT'S LIKE SOOOO GROSS.
In that particular timeline, if I recall, she had already formed a contract but this time witnessed Mami dying after.
I'd have to say the game's writing was not so great overall anyway though.
They're not. And this is a perfect example who why it's stupid to think so.
This guy is trying to use side content to explain her actual character from the anime's motivations.
No, they can't be. In some instances they directly contradict the anime. Mami's route in the game is based off of Homura's "first timeline" for example but somehow has multiple endings, it's impossible for all of them to have happened.
I thought nobody would be discussing this anime after 3 years. I wonder how long we can keep this up. I doubt it has the sheer discussion potential Evangelion has though.
I can't get over how shittily they drew Sayaka's soul gem in this scene.
Madoka doesn't have quite the volume of weird-ass lore and minutia NGE does. The reverse, if anything: Gen is on the record as saying he didn't think too hard about a lot of the mechanics.
On the other hand, we'll always have waifu wars.
Given that they lose consciousness when separated from their body, I doubt they'd actually despair. Because you kind of need consciousness for that. They might eventually run out of magic though.
maybe, maybe not, but it does show what those characters would do given a specific set of circumstances, thus allowing us a clearer perception of their personalities.
it's not hard to figure out sayaka's an impulsive idiot with a hero complex; it's probably not out-of-character for her to say "there's no going back!" and not actually realize what that means.
So I was wondering.
When asked about his wish potential, Kyubey stated that you could have anything you want.
Then he makes a big deal to Madoka how she can REALLY wish for whatever she wants because of her latent magic potential.
I wonder what would happen if a low potential magical girl wished for on a ridiculous scale like Madoka.
Presumably, his "you can wish for anything you want" pitch is a bit of an exaggeration, since Madoka's potential giving her the ability to become a god was a pretty big plot point. A low-potential girl making a huge wish probably wouldn't work, or would get a partial fulfillment. It seems like QB avoids that ever being an issue by only approaching girls who it's obvious what they'll wish for (Mami about to die, Kyouko in poverty, Sayaka despairing over Kyousuke, Homura despairing over Madoka).
Approaching Homura still wound up backfiring in the end. Boy did it ever backfire.
>QB avoids that ever being an issue by only approaching girls who it's obvious what they'll wish for (Mami about to die, Kyouko in poverty, Sayaka despairing over Kyousuke, Homura despairing over Madoka).
The wish possibility is driven by extreme feelings for something. So Kyubey jumping in at those moments is just him reacting to the strong emotional response to something, which makes an entropy reducing contract possible.
Refer to: >>113608421
Just switch lich for witch.
You don't become a witch unless you sign the contract, which is the main reason girls are made to sign the contract in the first place. To become witches in the long run.
Why isn't there fanart of lich megucas
Do Japanese people even know what liches are
Well yeah, back when she thought all she would need to do is fight witches for Kyousuke's hand to be healed. Would she have been willing to do the same if she knew about becoming a lich and turning into a witch beforehand? It doesn't matter, because she's stuck either way.
You again? Don't you have to go be autistic somewhere else.
Homura did nothing wrong.
>letting people jam swords in her stuff in the first place
>Still getting easily overpowered by someone who's worn out from their previous fight
Maybe the reason is logistic, because qb mentioned that the gem help hers to use magic more efficient
Moreover it serves to transfer the "dark dusk" more easily that if pass through a body (with the risk of fade on it) and carrying that to I-no-know-where
>someone saving a webm from 4chan and giving it a similar name to the original are literally zero
Madoka did not want to be saved and the law of cycles is in ruins. She brainwashed everyone to act how she wanted them to act and enjoyed watching Sayaka cry. I can't wait for Sayaka and Madoka to kill her.
Except if that were the case, someone would have figured it out before. But no one does.
>Homura even modified her body on screen.
She corrected her vision, we can do that with lasers. It's not that impressive.
Oh it is. Even more so in a fanbase that has been as killed as Madoka's. Even more so because the original was a gif, not a webm, and you're claiming to have saved it. So it makes it clear you're lying.
I'm guessing you missed the entire flower field scene then.
> She brainwashed everyone to act how she wanted them to act
No she didn't.
>enjoyed watching Sayaka cry
No she didn't.
I'm pretty sure you're baiting so I'm gonna stop biting.
Yes, and they discovered it in the show too, when Sayaka's soul gem got thrown off a bridge onto a truck. The point is if they were "clinically dead", as your fanfiction claims, Mami or Kyouko would have noticed at some point in their careers.
>Have you gone senile or something?
he's probably just pretending.
Well Homura wasn't able to do anything about it the first time. She only had that opportunity because Sayaka put her sword down to talk. Because they weren't actually fighting.
One of the draw backs to being a newshit.
It's the samething as trying to say "/A/"
You do realize you always fucking do this, right? You know that screenshot means nothing. It's like announcing who you are.
No, I'm legitimately curious to know if there's any precedent at all to this. I know people sometimes get shit for using "Moot" even at the beginning of sentences, but I've never seen someone say the same thing about "anon". I mean, "Anonymous" has a capital A anyway. It seems really arbitrary and I think you're making it up.
Homura can only win with trickery and backstabbing like the evil, unloved bitch she is. She has never won a straight fight and never will, Madoka and Sayaka will erase her rotten soul from existence with no regrets.
Again, just one of the draw backs to being new, and cancer that ruins these threads. You don't know a lot about the board. Fuck, you even called it "4chan" not "/a/". Another tell tell sign you're new.
>Homura was about to try to stop time
Watch the scene again, no she wasn't.
You were talking like Homura only got the upper hand because of the surprise factor, when it was the other way around.
I think you're confused.
The first time, Sayaka speared Homura's shield because Homura was about to stop time. She later withdrew her sword when she was dancing around talking.
The second time is the one we see in that webm. Homura was ready for it that time, so she managed to deflect the sword.
Yes she was, Homufag retard. Your shit girl is cruel and Madoka would rather be all alone than with her because Homura is less than dirt to her. I hope you enjoy watching her die in agony knowing her life was a waste.
I thought you were talking about the second time Sayaka attacked.
Also you might notice that Homura never really attempted to break out the first time, she was just suprised, and was interested in what Sayaka had to say.
according this, being Qb sucks too because maybe they aren't a race but a subspecies or another lifestyle specializing in performing such duties not for only one but several spatial races that not have to worry much about her energy expenditure
>Also you might notice that Homura never really attempted to break out the first time
I suppose you could make the argument that she could have broken out if she wanted to but she chose not to, but it seems more likely to me that she she was able to do it the second time because she was ready for it. You can see that she starts with the shield held up higher the second time, readying herself to deflect the sword rather than trying to physically overpower Sayaka.
It's actually not more likely. If it was, then Homura would have tried to stop time again as soon as Sayaka removed her sword and started dancing around. Homura had no intention of fighting.
Sayaka's significantly more competent in Rebellion than she was in the series though.
Not that I'm really trying to argue powerlevels here, because seriously, fuck powerlevels. I'm just talking about this one specific incident.
Well, all Sayaka did the first time was cancel the time stop. That's not really much.
People tend to forget that Homura's shield is not just a time stop device but a real shield too. Strong enough to even block Walpurgis attacks.
>Homura is out of her league combat wise
That's probably true, since she's without a reliable way of negating Homura's time stop, unless she can tangle her cape in the gears or something. Regardless of how strong anyone is, you can't really fight Homura as long as she can freely use her magic.
>It means they are dead flesh dolls controlled by magic from the gem
And humans are dead flesh dolls controlled by their brain. What is the actual practical meaning of anything you're saying? "Clinical death" is defined as loss of blood circulation and breathing, and that clearly doesn't apply to magical girls.
We can't say that for sure unless we actually see them fight without Homura's timestop - which isn't exactly a fair fight for Homura, anyway. I doubt series Sayaka could get her act together enough to do anything, but Rebellion Sayaka is clearly more competent.
It's similar to what happened with Rika
Stop pretending to love Sayaka just so you can shit on Homura, I find it very distasteful.
I think that makes no sense whatsoever.
>sayaka was previously stated and portrayed as being much weaker than Mami
>she is stronger now
>we have no clue as to how much stronger.
There's no reason to assume she's around Mami's level.
Given how ridiculous Mami was in Rebellion, I think it's pretty likely that Sayaka wouldn't stand much of a chance against her. But you're making a mistake thinking about everything in terms of powerlevels. It's not some concrete hierarchy of "X < Y, Y < Z, therefore Z beats Z" or whatever. How well Sayaka would do against Mami doesn't have much to do with how well Sayaka would do against Homura.
The problem with this is that Homura was essentially created a fake version of herself inside the barrier. She couldn't have had her real time stop, the only reason it "worked" at all was because everyone was either programmed to believe it would (Madoka, Mami, Kyouko) or was were just playing along with the game (Sayaka, Nagisa).
Does Sayaka have some special fighting style that would be particularly effective against Homura?
Does she have some special haxxed power that could make up for her lack of strength and agility compared to Homura?
If not, then I see no issue with using X<Y<Z logic.
>lack of strength and agility
What are you basing this on?
If we're working under the assumption that Homura has no time stop for whatever reason, she's not outstandingly fast or strong compared to anyone else. Even in the series, Sayaka was pretty damn fast. She's literally a blur when fighting against Elly.
I don't see what's so spooky about Sayaka
It is forged from the fires of justice.
But we've seen Sayaka go fast.
>Well there was that time where she survived having a big ass building chucked at her.
I think Sayaka would be even better at that, what with the auto-regen and all.
It is Homura's fault trolls exist in the first place, she is responsible for everything bad in the world and the faster Madoka cleanses the universe of her influence the better off everyone will be.
1/10 for finding my reply too, do you really have nothing better to do? I mean, even a 3yo kid can see you're trolling - when you start ignoring like half the series it becomes so plain obvious that you cannot fool anyone. Actually, by now even retards have gotten used to it since it's in every thread. It isn't trolling anymore. It's spam.
Sayaka been portrayed as extremely fast in fights against non fodder enemies.
We also have seen Kyoko having no problem keeping up with her.
We've also seen Mami kill Kyoko by moving fast enough to take her by surprise.
Homura kept up with Mami.
You know who else ignored half the series? Homura. She ignored everything that Madoka did for her--no, wait, that's not true, actually, she spit on it like the spiteful creature that she is.
What? Are you trying to say she would be slower if she was fighting a magical girl?
>We've also seen Mami kill Kyoko by moving fast enough to take her by surprise.
Surprise attacks can beat anyone. See: Homura getting tied up like three times.
How can their keki be real if their bodies aren't real?
I'm saying she hasn't been PORTRAYED as being fast unless compared to cannon fodder enemies. Just because she's drawn with a lot of blurry lines sometimes doesn't make her the fastest, especially when she's been portrayed as being the overall weakest of the group.
Fair enough on that I guess,
I saw how many people responded in this thread. I'm sorry, it might actually be a successful troll, and not spam. Excuse me while I vomit in disgust at the retards in /a/ who still treat you as if you are capable of a sensible comment.
Oh and I forgot to address
>I think Sayaka would be even better at that, what with the auto-regen and all.
Still you have no proof. Sayaka has never been shown to be capable of taking an attack of that magnitude. Regen =/= durability
I'm not sure if that really means anything. Yes, she's obviously weaker than everyone else in the series, but she got an upgrade in Rebellion. And even if it's just "cannon fodder", it's still a representation of her powers, and we've never seen anyone else portrayed as that fast.
What? You seriously think Homura's better at tanking hits than Sayaka? That's preposterous. What exactly would "failing" to take an attack even consist of? She could just keep healing as much as she needs to.
I'm pretty sure they're making fun of you and the Homuhater.
this isn't bakemonogatari and regen isn't instant. Being down for a few seconds is enough for Homu. Still, I'd say your whole discussion is absolutely retarded since one way or another Sayaka has no chance against Homucifer and comparing specifically Rebellion Homu to Rebellion Sayaka is useless since they didn't fight at that time
As far as I could keep track, the point was supposed to be a hypothetical fight between Rebellion Sayaka and a Homura without timestop. I still say it could go either way. I'm not trying to make a point about anything else.
Can you quantify this "upgrade"?
She's more mature and more powerful, but that's all we know. Anything else is just hearsay.
Kyoko sure had no problem keeping up with her, and Mami has been consistently portrayed(and stated by Sayaka herself) to be the ace of the group. Her being faster wouldn't make sense.
>What? You seriously think Homura's better at tanking hits than Sayaka? That's preposterous. What exactly would "failing" to take an attack even consist of? She could just keep healing as much as she needs to.
It depends. Wolverine could handle having his arm cut off a lot better than Superman could, but that doesn't mean Superman isn't way more durable.
Homura's no Superman. In fact, I'm fairly certain it was stated that outside of her ludicrously powerful time stop ability she doesn't have any special qualities at all as a magical girl.
>Can you quantify this "upgrade"?
No. That's why I'm not exactly placing any bets over here. But she's clearly much more competent. Can you imagine series Sayaka catching Homura off-guard and stabbing her shield, even if she knew about it?
>Her being faster wouldn't make sense.
Not necessarily saying she's faster, but she's fast. If she can get in Homura's face she could probably do some damage - Homura's not exactly an ace at melee combat.
And Homura is really not Superman.
Elaborating, prior the Madokami's mending witches were like uncontrollabe stands that killed its user upon manifesting, like Holly in JoJo's Part 3. Meguccas who have successfully overcome their negative emotion can harness their witch forms as stands into battle.
Second season OP will be done by Jin Hashimoto and it will be about a ragtag team of meggucas cruising the world looking for evil goddess Homura who has stolen Madoka's god powers for herself.
>But she's clearly much more competent.
> Can you imagine series Sayaka catching Homura off-guard and stabbing her shield, even if she knew about it?
Probably not, but then again like you said, the element of surprise is a powerful thing. Regular Madoka was able to grab and throw magical girl Sayaka's soul gem before she could do anything after all.
> If she can get in Homura's face she could probably do some damage
She seemed adept enough when she was fighting with Mami and they were smacking each others guns around. Also the webm that guy posted should serve as an example as to what would happen if she tried to get in Homura's face.
>And Homura is really not Superman.
>Mami is the Joseph of the group in terms of stands
At least Candeloro is the cutest witch.
>She seemed adept enough when she was fighting with Mami and they were smacking each others guns around
Guns aren't really the best thing to use for deflecting actual swords.
>Also the webm that guy posted should serve as an example as to what would happen if she tried to get in Homura's face.
Sayaka was specifically aiming for Homura's shield in order to stop her, which Homura anticipated and took advantage of. And it's not like Sayaka can't just make more swords.
>Guns aren't really the best thing to use for deflecting actual swords.
We're talking about skill.
>Sayaka was specifically aiming for Homura's shield in order to stop her, which Homura anticipated and took advantage of. And it's not like Sayaka can't just make more swords.
I just looked up the scene and Sayaka starts attacking before Homura even raises her shield.
Her being able to make more swords is not the point. Homura was strong enough to knock the sword out of her hand and fast enough to kick her back before she could react in any way.
This thread should win the Autism of the Year award. Not even joking. It's no wonder people around here are so cynical and jaded when they are completely incapable of suspension of disbelief towards a medium that is primarily fictional fantasy.