Has anime ever done good hard science fiction?

Gunbuster

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Planetes

>>113541860
First, you have to define "good".

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Madoka.

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The Starship Troop OAV was the best rendition of Robert Heinlein's book I've seen. Makes the live action movie look like a unfaithful pile of dog crap by comparison.

>>113541883
Gunbuster is about as hard as Noriko's tatas.

The ending is fantastic, though.

Aldnoah Zero, obviously

>>113541900
Agreed. Though it wasn't anything groundbreaking, and there were definitely some really big "fiction" bits, I loved this series.

>>113541860
2001 nights

Science Fiction is arguable the most successful and well received genre for anime.

Naruto

{spoiler]BRs and Pinoys really believe in it[/spoiler]

>>113542036
>Science Fiction is arguable the most successful and well received genre for anime.
"Hard" sci-fi implies a rigorous adherence to only doing things that we know are physically possible.

Guilty Crown
Code Geass
Aldnoah Zero
Gundam Wing
Gundam Seed
MD Geist
Fate/Stay Night
Sword Art Online


All hard sci fi that makes every other medium look like fucking garbage.

>>113541952
They are unfaithful piles of crap. That's kinda the point.

>>113542119
>Code Geass
>Sword Art Online
>hard sci-fi

nigger what

>>113542119
0/10

seriously, bruh.

>>113542149

Its one of those le epic trolls man. I would have thought that would be obvious.

>>113541860

Hard sci-fi can mean one of two things:

>focussing on physics, biology and chemistry as opposed to the humanities/
>drawing on real technologies and science with no or minimal handwaving or sillytech

>>113541952

I'm convinced the movie is meant to undermine the book. The books message is all about militarism and service to the nation. I don't think Verhoeven ever had any intention of porting its message across faithfully. Instead he did a wacky Vietnam allegory.

>>113541963

It's basically The Forever war

Except space is full of Aether. Also ... everything else.

It's still just about the hardest sci-fi you're going to see in anime.

VOTOMS

>>113541860
Armored Trooper Votoms on the surface seems very believable in it's tech, arguably even the way Scopedogs are presented seems to make even mecha believable.

However, I'm only so far in, and I just know there's probably going to be some kind of psychic shit going on later though, I think I've heard something like that.

>>113542149
hes obviously bait why reply?

>>113542117
If it was like that, then we'd have no extra-solar SF
Hard science fiction implies an attention to technical details, fictional but plausible or rooted in reality
For example, Cowboy Bebop is pretty plausible (warp gates have been used in other hard sci-fi), but the tech is never really explained and it's less sci-fi and more "crime stories on different planerts", so that would be soft sci-fi

>>113542196
>I'm convinced the movie is meant to undermine the book
That's exactly it, the director literally stated he didn't read the book and wanted to do satire.

>>113542261

Even if someone's only pretending to be retarded it's worth having someone point out what they're saying is retarded or else the newfags might actually fall for it.

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>>113542265
>soft sci-fi

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Apparently SyFy is going to do a tv show adaptation of this, but it'd be far better as an animated series. There's no way you can correctly portray the weird proportions of the OPA colonists in live action

>>113542265
Hardness of scifi does not depend solely on explanations.

>then we'd have no extra-solar SF
Yes, we do. It is just not be very hard.

I think you are both right. The hard scifi is rooted in science we know and tries to make proper explanations for the leaps in technology it comes up with.

>>113542196
nah people misunderstand the book

heinlein wrote a lot of short fiction for bright teenagers where he'd be like "here's what sounds like a good idea, explain to yourselves why it's bad", starship troopers was doing that for roman-lite fascism

like, the longest piece of dialogue in the book is literally two and a half pages of a teacher telling the main character "this is great everything's fantastic you fucking retard i can't believe you're so stupid that you don't get it" and then the main character just goes "oh cool thanks for explaining it to me" and sits down like a chump

that whole scene was designed to piss off high school age kids and make them think really hard about why the teacher might be wrong

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>tfw there will never be a ringworld ova

>>113542119

I think the weirdest thing about this post is that SAO is actually by far the most plausible, and could actually happen within the next ~50 years. Early VR is already here in the form of the Oculus Rift. Having a neural interface and control over the five senses is the next step.

>>113542177
>trolls
No, it isn't.
Not every joke is a troll. Look up what trolling is about.

>le epic
Fuck off.

>>113542326
if I reply to this do I get backwards-reverse-baited?

do you see the irony in all this?

GiTS and Patlabor are probably the closest that I can think of, although both (of course) have their issues. GiTS' particular brand of transhumanism relies a little too heavily on Cartesian dualism being literal truth, while Patlabor never explains how its titular robots are able to support their own weight or move.

>>113542326
No, it isn't.

>pretending to be retarded
He was making a joke. It's /a/'s failure for wanting to be trolled that turned this into something more.

>>113542374

If that's what he was going for then mission successful, because it pissed me off and I didn't buy into it.

>>113542428
Labors are small enough to be in the realm of plausibility. You could probably make the numbers work if you sat down and tried.

>>113542452
>I was only making a joke by pretending to be retarded

Yeah, ok son.

>>113542413
>am I fitting in yet

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Moretsu is far from a hard sci-fi show, but the sci-fi it does do is pretty detailed and fantastic.

>>113542399
VR may be possible, but the tech is explained in a retarded way.

>>113541952
The book was trash. The anime was ok. The live action was a masterpiece.

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Knights of Sidonia

>>113542504
Anon, you dense motherfucker. He was not pretending to be retarded. That would have been to bring up one stupid anime and defend it like a stupid fanboy.
Instead he brought up a series of anime that didn't fit the criteria, to give you the opportunity to figure out "hey, something is wrong with the list! Oh, wait, that's supposed to be a joke!".

Unfortunately you failed to do that.

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>>113541860
Hard sci-fi is basically science fiction that is plausible given what we presently understand about the physical universe.

It is not a binary system, it is a scale. Some things are harder or softer than other things.

The most important facet of Hard science fiction is internal consistency. 40k for example, fails at this dramatically, while 2001 A Space Odyssey excels at it.

Hard science fiction does not necessarily have to be 1:1 with reality. Many hard sci-fi novels feature, for example, a 'plot device' of some sort that makes everything else in the novel possible. This is typically a faster than light drive, or some form of faster than light communication, but varies.

If the creative work is internally consistent and closely follows the laws of physics while exploring future concepts, you can probably classify it as hard science fiction.

>>113542592

Tricked.

Betterman?
I remember that show having some serious biology shit going down.

>>113542626
ftl pig dick

fuck to the ftl, shit eater

>>113542631
No, you tricked yourself, in your desperate need for an argument.

>>113542667
English please

Rate my hard scifi list:

Steins;Gate
Denn? Coil
Eden of the East
Pale Cocoon

>>113542536
>VR may be possible
The Rift /is/ VR, with the right software to go with it. All it lacks is full sensory immersion, which isn't required for VR.
Agreed though that it isn't explained well at all, and the whole 'microwave your brain' thing wouldn't happen. Any device with that much power would never get approval for public betas - forget actually making it to stores. It's even shown that that lower-power units not capable of cooking brains are perfectly capable of the same VR experience, so it doesn't even make sense within the show's world.

>>113542396
In the later novels everyone turns into furries.

>>113541860
Planetes is the obvious one, it's been mentioned above. Moonlight Mile is the second one that comes to mind. I guess you could call Space Brothers hard scifi too. Time of Eve is as close to anything from Asimov getting an anime. That kind of fits.

>>113541860
"Science fiction" does not exist.
Science involves real things that are real.
Fiction is inherently a story or idea that is nonexistence, hence fictional.

You cannot combine real and fake. It doesn't exist.

>>113541900
Planetes is awful and you should feel bad for liking it

>>113542705
FTL piggu go home.

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>>113542354
Is better.

>>113542793
>"Science fiction" does not exist.
Oh this gonna be good.

>>113542705
ftl is shit and lazy and makes bad hard sci fi

blindsight is the best hard sci fi novel published this decade, prove me wrong fucker

Cowboy Bebop is pretty hard if you leave out the hyperspace gates.

>>113542796
>User was banned for this post

>>113542796
Your taste is awful and you should feel bad for being born.

>>113542793

Ok then, well go with "Hard Speculative Fiction" even though it sounds stupid since apparently being stupid pleases you.

>>113542782
Is moonlight mile worth watching?

>>113541860
Macross Plus came close.

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>muh spess oprah

Is Crest/Banner of the Stars hard science fiction?

>>113542840
It's one of the few shows where you don't just stop suddenly in the middle of space when your fuel runs out.

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>>113542722
>Eden of the East
Holy FUCK I tried my best to repress any memories of that crock of shit and you had to bring it back up
I NEED TO SEE YOUR JOHNNY

>>113542819
blindsight was edgy shit for teenagers who like the idea of sociopathic vampires taking over humanity in space.

>>113542840
Hard-boiled, even.

>>113542536
Retarded, how? That's basically how a neural interface should function for VR. It's basically a dream simulator.

>>113542743
>microwave your brain
The original Nervgear was made expressly for that purpose.

>Any device with that much power would never get approval for public betas
Look at the real world. Every day there's a story of some bloke burning his face from using a smartphone while charging.

>>113542864
It is if you like manly men doing space things and.

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Not anime, but Two Faces of Tomorrow. It's an adaptation of a novel though

>>113542819
Except it's theoretically possible, in fact NASA has already observed results that would make the creation of an Alcubierre drive plausible

>>113542875
>aliens
>ftl
>space navies
>beam weapons

no

>>113541900
Right answer. If there isn't a moon colony by 2075 I'm gonna be pissed.

>>113542864
Depends.
I liked it in the beginning, but for me it's too much action-fuel.
There's constantly something going wrong. Sure, otherwise the MC wouldn't get to be a hero, but in the end you'll just yell: "Why go to space at all if every spacecraft explodes within 2 days?

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>>113542916
>NASA

>>113542916
No they haven't. It's still wild speculation, just one recent experiment made it marginally easier to make shit up about.
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/warpstat_prt.htm

>>113542875
MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES MINES

It's nowhere close to hard sci-fi, but I was really impressed with the sci-fi elements of the Gankutsuou setting. It managed to be stylish as fuck while elegantly maintaining the basic principles of the original story.

>>113542943
You won't even be alive by 2075.

>>113542983
His skeleton is going to be pissed.

>>113541860
Gintama

>>113542983
Humanity will have invented immortality too.

>>113542907
>Retarded, how?
>It runs on quantum computers therefore everything is possible!
>if you want something very desperately, quantum mechanics may change the rules of the game

>>113542940
Beam weapons are plausible, just impractical. I forget the fucking name of it, but there's that one setting where beam weapons are treated as situational secondary weapon and visible so their operators know where they're firing. They're mostly used for killing civilians who aren't in protected buildings.

Something like that wouldn't be too far fetched.

>>113542943
Our space age will have ended by then.
There will be no moon base, no Mars terraforming, no gondolas, no giant space children, no space bugs and no space elves.

>>113542961
All I'm saying is it's good enough to put in a hard sci-fi story

>>113543019
>It runs on quantum computers
What? I don't remember any quantum computers in SAO.

>>113543047
Not even remotely.

>>113542963
You need to stop breaking global rule 3.

>>113542983
2075 is only 61 years away.

>>113542428
There's a special, Minipato, that discusses the mechanics of labors and they admit that the design aesthetics came before function. Their bodies besides the joints are made of fiberglass, aluminum, or carbon fiber, was one made up factoid from it.

>>113543012
Yeah and what are you gonna do if we don't?

Maybe get even more mad?
If you spin in your grave fast enough we can at least harness you as an infinite energy source.

>>113542943
Enjoy the 10th War on terror instead

>>113543039
>I forget the fucking name of it, but there's that one setting where beam weapons are treated as situational secondary weapon and visible so their operators know where they're firing. They're mostly used for killing civilians who aren't in protected buildings.
Reminds me of Dune, where beam weapons are archaic inefficient technology because of their enormous power requirements for a low damage output and the pseudoatomic shield annihilation reaction. If a beam hits an active shield, everything blows up, so it's a mutual annihilation effect. Consequently, beams are only used in suicide attacks and for killing people with no shields, and fighting between soldiers (who are all shielded) has regressed to hand-to-hand swordfighting due to shields being permeable by slow-moving objects.

Well Steins Gate is considered to be hard sci-fi since it makes perfect sense and follows laws of physics and it was pretty good.

>>113543053
That's how they explained Kirito surviving his death.
It's what became Accel World later.

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So what's the space odyssey of anime?

>>113541860

Stein's;Gate?

>>113543043
>no Mars terraforming
Until they figure out how to manufacture a magnetic field around Mars or remelt its core, terraforming that planet would be an enormous waste of time.

>>113543075
i'm not the one pretending i read a book instead of a few amazon reviews on a book

>>113543116
Kaiba

>>113543103
Pay exorbitant amounts of money to have my body frozen so I can come back when humanity has ascended.

>>113543043
>no gondolas
Don't remind me.

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>>113543120
Is this nigger serious?

>>113542912
the same artist did an adaptation of Inherit the Stars recently.

>>113543127
No, you're the one who looks like a 12-year-old.

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>>113543047
There's just no science to support it yet, it's all speculation. Every story saying that test proved it was possible was written by people that didn't understand it, no actual scientists hold that position.

>>113543124
This. Terraforming Mars is a stupendous waste of time. Ganymede, on the other hand, might be a decent prospect, provided we have the tech to terraform anything to begin with. Given that we can't figure out how to fucking feed half our own planet, I don't see that being in the cards in the next five generations.

>>113543110
What? No. I don't remember any quantum computers in Accel World either. Kirito surviving at the end of Aincrad was because of IS, not a quantum computing thing. It's easy to see if you think of full immersion VR as a dream simulator.

>>113543185
haha okay buddy

>>113542428
It's not like robots supporting their own weight is somehow impossible.

You do realize dinosaurs massing over 40 tons existed in reality, right? They didn't sink into the center of the planet like /k/ would have you believe.

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>>113543106
That just reminds me how one of my favorite things in science fiction is the plot finding an excuse to include melee fights. Dune and LotGH do it great.

>>113543163
>v.1 c.7-8 by Illuminati-Manga (303d ago)

Gundam. Except 00.

>>113543188
Well, yes it's pretty much all speculation, but if you want to place your story hundreds of years into the future, I think you could get away with using it

>>113543188
Learn what OR means.

>>113543131
We don't have the technology to freeze bodies and unfreeze them without killing them.

>>113543254
Only if you buy into NewTypes being another stage of human perceptive evolution and not psychic nonsense.

>>113543262
But that's not hard sci fi. Pushing it that far into the future is a copout for not being able to support the fiction half with science.

>>113542530
>pretty detailed and fantastic.
>fantastic
>fantastical
>no

i want more down to earth realism, not SUPER AMAZING ENERGY SOURCE! HUGE SHIPS WITH PERFECTLY FUNCTIONING SEWAGE SYSTEMS!

I want lain in space.

>>113543192
>Given that we can't figure out how to fucking feed half our own planet
That's not a tech problem, but a feature of capitalism.
We have the food, but they don't have the money to buy it.

>>113543294
Lain turning into the God of the Internet wasn't exactly the pinnacle of "down to earth realism"

>>113542572
>book trash
People that think Heinlein a fascist for reading Starship Troopers must feel he's a godless gommie after reading Stranger in a Strange Land. Right?
Literally one of the stupidest opinions on the planet. And an enduring one at that. >>113541952
They're too large. The power armor is stated to be like a "towering man" not a fucking giant.

>>113543249
LOGH was pretty hard. Except why are there parts of space they can't fly?! Go around the flipping Death Star, dummies!

MJP and Moretsu Pirates. Gundam too. LotGH, Voices of a Distant Star, Cowboy Bebop and Outlaw Star, I guess.

>>113543222
You do realize that a tank would take out those dinosaurs easily, right?

>>113543254
You are now aware Gundam had space stations anchored in Lagrangian points 5 years before Neuromancer did it. If someone else came up with that idea I'm not aware. But I'm sure someone else did.

>>113543340
Space is warped around the corridor. >>113543249
Dune does it well. LoGH is stupid. And I like and frequently defend the space battles from dumb people.

>>113543335
I never said he's a fascist. I'm just saying that book is wildly overrated and made me decide to put off reading the rest of his books in favor of better authors.

>>113543327
I was more referring to the climates of certain locations being incompatible with farming. Africa could feed itself if there wasn't a giant desert sitting on its face. China's in a similar boat: lot of semi-worthless to worthless landmass in its borders. Trying to graft Earthlike food productivity on an alien surface when we can't even reclaim land lost to our own deserts is an absurd prospect.

>>113543127
Joke is, I actually did read the book, and I thought it was interesting but I found the entire human-vampire plot completely fucking retarded.

Reminds me of all those kids who proudly claim themselves as self-diagnosed socio/psychopaths. As though it's somehow a good thing and not actually a serious mental handicap with identifiable problems in the formation of structures within the brain.

When a guy can go from normal functioning human being to psychopath because he had a railroad spike driven through his head, you might want to give pause to the idiotic idea promoted in media that psychopathy is a trait of geniuses. It isn't, and multiple studies suggest a correlation between psychopathy and low IQ's.

The actual mental illness of geniuses is Schizophrenia.

Check out Starship Operators. Story's kinda mediocre but it's pretty hard sci-fi.

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>>113543354
I don't even know what point you were trying to make but you fuck it up hard.

>>113543354
I'd watch that.

>>113543378
>If someone else came up with that idea I'm not aware.
Lagrange?

>>113543398
I'm not sure if we really can't.
So far, there's just no profit in it.

>>113543192
>Ganymede, on the other hand, might be a decent prospect
For, like, mining water or something. I vaguely recall NASA saying that Mars' gravity was about the lowest amount of gravity that a human could conceive a child in safely and without any crazy defects. There was an article about possible manned missions to Mars and speculation about what would happen if a couple had a baby in a 0 gravity environment.

>>113542983
>2075
>Not having a cybernetic brain and cloned body

>>113543422
That would be likely, wouldn't it? I looked the man up and he lived in the 1700s though.

Moretsu probably is most close thing I have seen in past four years.

Unless you want to count Gundam Unicorn...

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>>113543422
You know that came out like 40 years after Gundam right?

>>113543422
Lagrange + O'Neill = win

>>113543288
Learn what hard sci-fi means. And look at the representative works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_science_fiction#Representative_works

>>113543335
Heinlein used his novels as ways to explore political concepts.

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress explores the non-retarded form of libertarianism. (e.g. not anarcho-capitalism)

>>113543453
Ganymede has gravity. It also has a magnetosphere and an atmosphere. It also might have continents beneath its ice layer. Ganymede > Mars in every way that matters except for distance.

>>113543354
>>113543421
Gate? They fight a fire dragon at one point.

>>113543500
If you think hard scifi includes FTL you need to read harder scifi.

>>113543514
I didn't know there was a non-retarded form, I thought those 2 things were synonymous. Gotta add that to my backlog.

>>113543533
I said what not read, call me when they animate it. (that one scene from outbreak company was pretty good though)

>>113543540
Stop making up your own definitions of terms older than you.

>>113543398
Africa could feed itself if the people living there weren't half retarded and weren't drowned in surplus free food from western nations that their own agricultural industry can't compete against.

>>113541860
>hard science
>ring field that dense
>spacecraft just dragging itself through it
nah

Is Psyco-Pass hard sci-fic?

>>113543540
Hard/soft scifi isn't an on/off switch you ignoramus.

>>113543523
>Ganymede has gravity.
Ganymede has a third the gravitational pull that Mars does. That's the point I was making.

Mars is 3.71 m/s^2
Ganymede is 1.428 m/s^2

>>113543422
It was actually Euler. Because Euler discovered everything.

>>113543540
True hard scifi doesn't even involve space travel. The ISS is the extend of mankind's ability to survive in space.

>>113543583
>drowned in surplus free food
>half the continent is starving

Nobody but warlords and government officials are drowning in food in Africa. The point is that if we don't give enough of a shit to eradicate wasted landmass on the planet we're standing on, nobody is going to give a shit about altering landmass on a different planet.

>>113543607
Maybe like semi-hard

>>113543646
Half-chub at best

>>113543574
>There is a degree of flexibility in how far from "real science" a story can stray before it leaves the realm of hard SF.[10] Some authors scrupulously avoid such technology as faster-than-light travel, while others accept such notions (sometimes referred to as "enabling devices", since they allow the story to take place[11]) but focus on realistically depicting the worlds that such a technology might make possible. In this view, a story's scientific "hardness" is less a matter of the absolute accuracy of the science content than of the rigor and consistency with which the various ideas and possibilities are worked out.[10]
Good hard sf writers dont' use FTL. Lazy ones do, but that makes them less hard. I'm not against FTL in scifi, just dont' delude yourself thinking it's hard.

>>113543609
No shit pickle dick, it's a scale, and FTL is on the soft side of it.

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>>113543646
>>113543672
Stop making science fiction lewd!

>>113543611
And yet Ganymede can hold a stronger atmosphere than Mars can. How does it all work?

>>113543556
Non-retarded libertarianism basically axes all the economic wankery that ancaps try to stuff into the ideology.

anarcho-capitalism is the reason that people think libertarians want to completely eliminate the government and give literally everything to corporations and the rich. In truth it's basically just: Don't be fucking dicks - the ideology. The basic principles are that everyone has certain natural rights, and we should refrain from infringing on those rights wherever possible; economics isn't even a thing Libertarianism touches.

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I'm not good with the terminology. Is this hard sci-fi?

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>>113541883
i totally agree with you bro

>>113543687
Again, it needs repeating: stop making up your own definitions of terms older than you.

Even though it's soaked to the bone in religious allegory, Evangelion is, at its heart, science fiction. Even down to how life was started on earth, ultimately it was high level science.

>>113543583
Africa wont be able to feed itself until it builds a decent transportation infrastructure. No industry in that corner of the world can thrive until they build some railroads and decent highways.

>>113543707
The sun is stealing the one of Mars.

>>113543728
>quotes Wikipedia
>making up your own definitions
yeah we're done here you don't even know what's going on

>>113543707
It's because of the magnetic field surrounding Ganymede. Mars doesn't have one, which is why it doesn't have an atmosphere. That shit gets blasted away whenever the sun looks at it wrong.

>>113543645
Except that if that were to mean the colony could be independent from Earth, the benefit to the survival of the species would make it extremely desirable

>>113543687
Read your own quote.
>In this view, a story's scientific "hardness" is less a matter of the absolute accuracy of the science content than of the rigor and consistency with which the various ideas and possibilities are worked out.

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>>113543707
It's just proof of intelligent design.

>>113543749
No.

>>113543523
Everything is better than Mars. Even Venus is better than Mars as long as you don't mind living in Cloud City.

>>113543766
See >>113543777

Just because you quoted it doesn't mean you actually understood what the paragraph meant. Stop making up your own definitions.

>>113543777
Further elaborating that it's a scale, with FTL being on the soft side that lazy writers use out of convenience and makign their works less hard. It's all right there.

>>113543757
>Africa wont be able to feed itself until it builds a decent transportation infrastructure.
Africa won't be able to build a decent infrastructure until the west stops supporting a state of constant war in Africa.

>>113543687
Please see>>113542793 and stop being retarded.

This thread is too complicated for me

>>113543707
Ganymede is protected by Jupiter's massive magnetic field.

Mars has no magnetic field.

Mars' atmosphere has been stripped away over hundreds of millions of years by its interaction with solar radiation/wind

If we want to terraform mars and have it last longer than a couple hundred million years, we need to also create a planetary sized magnetic field for it.

This might actually be possible with a giant satellite producing a magnetic field of some kind in the Martian L1 point.

>>113543381
Dune is a good example of sci-fi with some unrealistic elements (shields, the Spacing Guild, the spice's transhuman shit) that remains consistent to its internal rules and is better off because of it. It also helps that it has some genuinely innovative and well-implemented concepts, like FTL travel that isn't taken for granted as the product of scientific advance.

>>113543807
>Stop making up your own definitions.
Repeating it doesn't make it true anon.

>>113543757
Even if those were built, by some miracle, transportation costs would be huge because every delivery would be through territory that makes Mad Max seen lawful.

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http://www.kheper.net/topics/scifi/grading.html

>>113543821
Learn to read. That sentence has nothing to do with what you're saying. It means that the scale is based on the rigor and consistency of ideas, not actual adherence to known physics.

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>>113543832
>Allowing one of the largest and most resource-laden continents on the planet to stabilize and develop

Go ahead and shit over all your ancestors' work at establishing Western hegemony in the first place, Sven.

>>113543853
It's repeated so you can realize that it's true, because you're too dumb to know your mistake the first time around.

>inb4 that wasn't me
Same difference.

>>113543804
>:Venus

Even harder to deal with than Mars.

>>113543832
Africans make africa unstable.

This is starting to become a /pol/ thread. Can we get back to talking about terraforming Mars?

>>113543955
Africans make America unstable.

>>113543411
then you missed the part where the vampire thing is a complete red herring used by the AI and it was supposed to be kind of stupid

and uh i think you missed a big part of the story, dude. it was about self-awareness and social behavior and their relation to evolution. vampires are solo predators so it didn't have a use for self-awareness and in losing it also shed deterministic thinking, but it kept its social graces as a reflexive camouflage. the whole point of them was as the middle point of a spectrum formed by the crew, as badly damaged people as they were, and the alien, a sapient, non-self-aware, non-social species that was incapable of understanding either of those.

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>>113541860
>hard science fiction

What do you mean exactly?

Crest/Banner of the Stars are sci-fi/space opera, but I wouldn't really consider them to be "hard" sci-fi

there hasn't been one show that beats CotS/BotS since they were released 10 years ago. This is a fact.

Maybe it's just me, but honestly my favorite part of science fiction is the description of the technology itself and how it works and what the doohickies and the rechenbockers do.

I could read a 2,000 page novel 1,500 of that were only descriptions and technologyporn.

Now I kinda want an anime about cute space mechanics fixing up mechas and describing their internal workings.

>>113543848
lack of plate tectonics is a far bigger issue since it prevents outgassing and thus replenishing of the atmosphere.

earth also lost its primary atmosphere (huge amounts of hydrogen and helium) to space. the losses due to kinetic effects (water being dissociated in the upper atmosphere and hydrogen escaping) are small enough thanks to the magnetic field that outgassing of lava and hydrothermal vents can compensate it.

Once the sun heats up (in a billion years) due to aging and earth loses its water the plates won't be "greased" anymore, lock up and tectonic movement will stop, thus also stop the atmosphere from being replenished. At that point it'll slowly get stripped away. Much slower than mars though.

>>113543935
Nah mate.

50-60km altitude has earth-normal temperature and pressure. You're above the sulfuric acid clouds, sit in a band of air that circles the planet in roughly an earth-day, and you have nearly the same amount of gravity as on earth.

It's literally the most habitable place in our solar system after earth itself.

>>113543848
>lashing Jupiter's magnetic field to Mars via satellite

I'd fund it, but it still requires technology we don't even have in our sights yet. I stand by the premise that a body already having a magnetosphere in place is, on the short term, a better prospect than one that doesn't have one at all.

>>113543935
Venus' upper atmosphere is very nearly the same as earth's and functions as a lifting gas. You'd have to live in balloon cities but that isn't a big deal when you're talking planetary colonization. Hypothetically you could float/drop a city down from orbit and start living in it immediately.

>>113543989
ebola-chan is working on it

>>113543877
> based on the rigor and consistency of ideas, not actual adherence to known physics
So, include ftl and disregard all known physics but just to make it's consistent in the story and you somehow still want to pretend it's hard scifi. Cool. Go for it.

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>>113543955
>Africans under french payroll
FTFY

>>113543378
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O'Neill_cylinder

Dragons are hard scifi too now, because you know, dinosaurs existed, so dragons are totally plausible.

>>113543804
>venus
HIGH PRESSURE SULFURIC ACID VAPOR AT 450°C

That shit is so corrosive that a scrubbing your skin with a metal brush would be a healthier choice.

>>113543998
You'd have to create a structure that stands tall enough to stay above the acid clouds - and is resistant to acid. Actually, that might be cheaper than trying to terraform an entire planet.

>>113543719

More or less, the main premise has to do with the wait calculation, so it very much feels like a sci-fi story you'd find from the 60s or 70s.

Surprised They Were 11 hasn't been mentioned. It stays pretty hard, for a sufficiently advanced interstellar community of cadets in training.

>>113543994
>I-it's not like I wanted to fix this local continuum transmorgifier for you or anything. I just had an extra acceleration drive sitting int the shop.
>bwaka

>>113544089
>not "O'Neillinder"
This guy knows shit about marketing

>>113543978
>terraforming Mars?
Impossible.

Human technology can't keep humans in deep space safely. Anyone who tries to reach the moon will suffer long-term illness and premature death. The most humans will achieve on Mars is the possibility of sending a small group of researchers on a one-way suicide mission to study Mars before succumbing to a lack of resources and illness.

We probably won't even get the chance before the garbage belt in space makes space travel impossible.

>>113544104
>I didn't read the thread
See >>113543998 and >>113544030 and stop being a retard.

>>113543998
So your idea is just to orbit the planet? We can do that now, right here. Nothing at all to do with terraforming Venus, which even if it were possible under current tech would be an undertaking so massive it would make Mars's problems look like chump change in comparison. Plus, Venus has zero rotation, shit would be some boring-ass weather even if it wasn't 700+ K.

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>ctrl f
>no alita
>no gunnm
Step it up, senpai.

>>113543556
it's still pretty retarded because it's an ideology that relies on having a group of capable, independent, non-asshole people that just love freedom and independence a whole heckuva lot and have good enough land and weapons to not have to compromise

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>>113544091
Bist du sauer

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>>113544089

>>113544089
Neat

>>113544140
>hard sci fi
super cyborgs get out

>>113544159
A cooler O'Neill than that one.

>>113544104
>That shit is so corrosive that a scrubbing your skin with a metal brush would be a healthier choice.

We have like three dozen different materials that are immune to sulfuric acid corrosion. Some of them, like Teflon, can be coated to just about anything.

Reminder: We live on a planet with an extremely corrosive gas called Oxygen.

>>113544055
Sure. Create an entirely new universe with its own set of extensive, exhaustive and consistent physical laws.

Also see:
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/ideachev.html
and >>113543871

Conclusion: you guessed it, stop making up your own definition of terms older than you.

>>113544139
Ridding an air current that circulates the planet isn't the same as orbiting it.

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>>113542428
I'm suprised that you're the only one so far to bring up GiTS. The movie in particular was pretty hard as far as sci-fi goes.

I wish there was a Ringworld anime. that book really did Hard Sci Fi well.

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Is it actually possible to take the planet jupiter and turn it into a giant black hole bomb?

>>113544108
Or you just create aerostat colonies like Bespin from star wars.

Our oxygen/nitrogen mix atmosphere is a lifting gas on venus, and hydrogen/helium are better lifting gases on venus than they are on earth.

Remember: Bouyancy functions in relation to air pressure.

The surface of venus is crazy, but you don't need to live down there. Probably we'd end up mining the shit out of it, floating the ore to the upper atmospher with balloons, and then possibly skyhooking it into space.

>>113544126
>Impossible.
As long as it not violates the laws of physics it's not impossible

Inefficient? Uneconomical? Beyond current engineering capability of humankind? Maybe.
Impossible? No.

You could "easily" collect kuiper belt objects, i.e. lumps of frozen gas, lob them towards mars and smash them onto the poles. That gives you impact heat melting some of the ice, carbon dioxide to get the greenhouse effect going etc.
Takes a while to pull it off and is quite messy, but it should be feasible, assuming you have some decent fusion reactors to operate vehicles on the outer rim of the solar system.

>>113543801
>being too dense to realize every religious reference or implication of a god is just allegorical
Stay pleb.

>>113544091
Actually, dragons are completely plausible. Ideas of fire-breathing can be accounted to human error in describing their abilities and the existence of dinosaurs lends credence to large-scale reptiles.

Dragons are objectively harder Scifi than FTL. Flying animals really exist, large reptiles really exist, and despite that no form of physical FTL exists. Just put two and two together.

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>>113544194
We've sent probes to Venus. The conditions there are so harsh that the little machine only has enough time to snap some photos and send them back before being obliterated.

>>113544248
It would be a very small black hole. Its mass would be the same as Jupiter.

>>113544248
>black hole
>bomb

no

a black hole has the exact same gravitational pull as the mass it was formed from

turn jupiter into a black hole and boy howdy it's exactly like fucking jupiter

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>>113544156
Warum sollte er/sie sauer sein?

Danke fürs Bild.

No, because Hard Science Fiction is never good.

It's just bullshit. But it lacks the awesome imagination to be good bullshit. And it lacks the real science to be factual.

Hard SF is for complete faggots. Always has been. It's a genre for the fucking autists to be inept over.

>>113543712
The term libertarian was coined by french anarchist communists. The stupid ancaps have as much right to the term as the retarded libertarians that stole the term from actual anarchists.

>>113544159
There will never be an SG-1 anime ;_;

Time of Eve was nice.

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>>113544273
>>113544104
>not living in the sky

>>113544248
Nope

>>113544273
1. It was made by Russians.
2. It was mostly the pressure.

>>113544260
You need to do something about the magnetic field first.

THE HARDEST OF HARDEST sci fi (or no anime after 2005)
>cyberpunk super wizard class hacker tier
Ghost in the shell (movies,sac etc)
Metropolis
Texhnolyze
S E Lain
Appleseed
Cyber City Oedo 808
Akira
>Honorable mention from the moe era
Psycho-Pass (although the basic permise is a rip of off the Minnority Report)
Ergo Proxy
Real Drive
> SUPER REALISTIC HARD ROBOT SCIENCE PEWPEW LAZERS
Gasaragi
N G Evangelion
Armored Trooper Votoms
Patlabor
Yukikaze
Rujin Z (Geriatric Mecha bed!)
Gun Parade March
Gunbuster
Diebuster
>We are in space now captain
Martian succesor Nadesico
Planetes
Knights of Cidonia (before it turned into a harem anime in space)
Cowboy bebop
Terra e
Yamato
Legend of the Galactic Heroes
S P Harloc
Macross Plus
Sol Bianca
Infinite Rivius
Moonlight Mile

Just on top of my head

>>113544273

Average lifespan was 2 hours. The temperature is too brutal for anything we've built to survive, and even projected estimates using modern tech only give about a 50-day lifespan and that's being liberal. Venus is problem built on problem built on catch-22 with a side of more problems and a daily special on catch-22s.

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>>113544309
except jupiters frictional forces causes a termination in acceleration, wheras a black hole has only the negligble friction of a vacuum up to the event horizon. after the event horizon you would no longer able to get off the hole since escape velocity at the point is C, so beyond is beyond C, which is impossible. it's interesting because what happened past that point as it approaches the center? does matter simply become gauge bosons?

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>>113544356
>Ba'al-sama instantly becomes fujo bait

Some dreams are better left unfulfilled, Anon.

>>113544321
>And it lacks the real science to be factual.

no it doesn't. that's the whole point of hard sci fi you idiot. at least wiki what you wish to troll about first, jesus.

>>113544426
I'd put my snake in Ba'al's head if you know what I mean.

>>113544421
We know how black holes work, anon.
You don't know how bombs work.

>>113544273
sulfuric acid is far far worse than oxygen. It's an oxidizer and a proton donor. It also doesn't form passivisation layers.

Not to mention that there are many organic substances which are stable in a molecular oxygen atmosphere. Sulfuric acid on the other hand attacks most of them.

>>113544421
the point was mostly about a gravitational dynamics of the solar sytem perspective. a black hole in jupiter's orbit is no more dangerous than a gas giant in jupiter's orbit.

>>113544309
>a black hole has the exact same gravitational pull as the mass it was formed from
Unless its rotating. Either way the whole conversation is pointless since you can't collapse the mass of jupiter into a singularity.

>>113544356
Wasn't Stargate: Infinity enough?

>>113544419
we'll land on mars, but we'll colonize venus

material science ain't no thang baby

>>113544543
We'll do neither, because space travel is dying.

>>113544574
we'll all go to space in a spacex spaceplane, anon

hold onto your hope ;_;

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How about Yukikaze?

>>113544512
Wasn't DEEN's F/sn enough?

>>113544574
>because space travel is dying.
There's just no reason to do it. It's not like you're gonna set up a successful mining operation on another planet anytime soon, so space exploration is gonna be largely about doing experiments in space. Well you don't have to go all the way to the moon or another planet to do that.

>>113544615
>variable geometry planes being good

haha buddy this is a scifi thread, suspension of disbelief can only go so far

>>113544622
>>113544512
What if Urobuchi did a Stargate anime?

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>>113544356
It's for the best.

>Shinji Betamax was an ordinary highschool student until he suddenly got abducted by aliens.
>One of the symbiotic aliens fighting against the evil goa'uld is injured and has to give up her human body and take Shinji as host
>She now lives in his body and stores her former host in his closet
>How will Shinji manage his school life, the talkative symbiot in his head controlling him half of the time and an alien revolution?
>- Starting this Fall on Tokyo MX, Studio Madhouse.

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>>113542572

what is dark matter? what is dark energy?

>>113544508
frame dragging is not all that relevant since it's confined to a relatively small volume. Afaik not larger than the volume of the original planet.

>>113543294
>HUGE SHIPS WITH PERFECTLY FUNCTIONING SEWAGE SYSTEMS
Their ships aren't really that big, maybe except for the Golden Ghost Ship, but that thing was a generational colony ship with cold sleep units on it.

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>>113544662
b-but 2D thrust vectoring
swept forward wings
sentient AI pilot assistants

>>113544405
good list

>>113542722
no Time of Eve?

>>113544705
If we knew that, it wouldn't be dark.

>>113542119
>Gundam
>Code Gayass
Son do you even realism? (bellow an example of a hard scifi mecha series)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWXBug4B8BA

Also one of the most basic rules of a good scifi series; most of the times seinen never ever shonen...

>>113544705
We don't know, they're just placeholder terms until we figure it out.

Sort of like the luminiferous aether. Possibly quite as misguided.

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>>113544679
>Shinji Betamax

>>113544728
Robots don't just happen to become sentient without anybody noticing though. Of course you could assume a big conspiracy going on, which it sortof is hinting at. But still, it's stretching it considering the necessary technology.

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>>113544670

>>113544670
>Sam dies
>Teal'c dies
>Daniel goes Ori
>Vala is raped to death
>O'Neill loses his hands, can never fish again
>Mitchell saves the day

Symphogear

>>113544764
Welcome to /a/.

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>>113544609
Of course you will,in a Microsoft/EA published space simulator after paying for the release exclusive DLC of course.

>>113544733
>>113544739
Man, why you gotta give him the real answers.

>>113544705
>dark matter
Supersymetric particles.
>dark energy
Vacuum energy

>>113544662
Though, anything can fly if you throw it hard enough.
If we had Macross-tier engines for our jets, if the air force wanted their jets to be giant bricks, they'll still fly via pure thrust.
Not that our current fighters are aerodynamically stable.

>>113543039
Beam weapons would be too hot so you would have to get heatsinks to not make your ship melt.
But seriously why use humans for fighting. They need a warmed so to Survive and on the background of cold space you light up like a Christmas tree when they use heat scans. Robots using volleys of rockets that cover all possible movement routes would work better.

>>113544886
Effects of vacuum energy have long been experimentally observed, though.

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>>113544670

Stargate:
>1. humans discover "something"
>2. "something" sets in motion a chain of events that leads to some evil aliens far stronger than the humans to come to power
>3. humans adapt and slowly tech up, save earth repeatedly and slowly deal strategically decisive damage to the aliens
>4. goto 1

Butchgen Stargate:
>1. as above
>2. as above
>3. humans try to save earth, almost do so, at a horrible price, barely dealing a blow to the aliens
>4. the next wave being practically inevitable and humankind left with almost no defenses
>6. one unspeakably immoral, horrifying and inhuman last-ditch plan with nevertheless low chances of success is hinted at
>5. the end

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>>113542119

>>113544942
But then how will we follow an emotionally engaging MC through his journey of becoming a man on the backdrop of interstellar warfare?

>>113544893
nah fighters are insanely unstable, god bless fly by wire

variable geometry is still a really heavy, maintenance-intensive waste of space gimmick though

>>113544770
The disgruntled scientist that wrote their original code was responsible for turning them sentient and a lot of people did notice and were actively trying to prevent it, did you miss all of that somehow?

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Fantastic Children? Toward the Terra?

>>113544662
Don't be dumb, this is set in the future.

It is totally possible the problems of variable-sweep wings could be overcome with new materials and more accurate and powerful computer assistance. Which is pretty much what yukikaze is about.

>>113544992
And then the aliens turn out to be humans.

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>>113544992
I can already imagine an entire episode of one of the big System Lords talking about utilitarianism.

>>113541860
How about Gundam ZZ? It clearly states in the opening theme that 'THIS IS NOT ANIME ITS REAL'
>Realism Intensifies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpV7eS4IrgA

>>113544992
butchgen sounds more fun to be honest.

What's the point of a battle if you just curbstomp everything with frienship?

>>113544992
As expected of the master.

>>113545032
ok but where's the part where they start falling out of the sky because all the mechanics drank themselves to death

>>113545015
No, I didn't miss it. But you don't just build a robot with so much processing capacity that it is enough for one disgruntled scientist to easily run code:eve on it without anyone realizing that in advance.

It's like accidentally building a supercomputer into your smartphone.

>>113544770
hmm, it's more like people didn't realize / were deterred from thinking of robots as having a full range of human thoughts and emotions.

The fact there is such a cultural backlash against 'android lovers' suggests that there are indeed people who sympathize with robots.

If slavers can dehumanize humans, dehumanizing robots isn't too far fetched.

>>113545059
That would be better than what we got in SG-1.

>>113541860

Holy shit does anyone in this thread even know what hard sci-fi is? Planetes is the only thing I've seen that comes close.

>>113544159
Still one of the best episodes of anything ever.

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Is there any manga similar to pic related?

I just want something with lots of beautiful science fiction art and that feeling of helplessness from fighting an enemy that seems unconquerable.

>>113544942
>would have to get heatsinks to not make your ship melt.
Even without them, you'll still need heatsinks, because things can't cool themselves down fast enough because no atmosphere.

>why use humans for fighting
Because they introduce an unpredictable element to the battle. Where robots would require a changing coding or something to achieve that, a human can just "I don't feel like it, maybe I'll do this instead".

>>113545110
There are multiple levels of hardness, obviously. And sci-fi doesn't have to be set in space for it to be considered hard/

>>113545141

I'm hard.

>>113545068
>start falling out of the sky because all the mechanics drank themselves to death
Not when you automate the maintenance.

That was pretty much what the FAF main computer in Yukikaze is trying to do in the books. Automating everything.

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>>113545062
Shit, what was all that other similar stuff I was watching that I thought was also anime? Was it all real?

>>113542907
>burning his face from using a smartphone while charging.
What?

>>113545075
I wouldn't go that far, the kind of programming to get robots to the level of pre-sentient competence shown doesn't seem that far off from what it could take to support rudimentary sentience. That was kind of the point. Your smartphone is a supercomputer by outdated standards.

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>>113545063
The stargate ratchet was done quite well though. The villain gallery came to power through different ways.

The replicators were fighting the asgard for a long time already. Then humans helped out. Then humans made it worse by discovering reese and thus setting the whole nanoreplicator/replicarter chain into motion. All that happend across multiple seasons while they were also fighting other threats.
And even defeated enemies often came back as lesser threats, licking their wounds and such.

And then there was ba'al that glorious bastard, actually learning from the humans and playing the same game.

The basic principle may seem repetetive, but they managed to execute it quite well with variations.

>>113545123
On the futility of interstelar war Armored Trooper Votoms if you can handle the 80's aesthetics. But it is realy hard to replicate such a masterpiece in any other medium (dreading for the time they actualy get around in making a shity holywood movie staring keanu reaves or smthing) directed by M. Bay.

>>113544721
IRL that'd be a pretty good way to ensure you never fly again for the rest of your service.

>>113541860
Eva.

>>113545068
This is the future, they drink synthanol

>>113545110
please refer to >>113543871

>>113545169
it's all real, friend

Planetes

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>>113545251
Well, good thing Rei isn't part of Earth's forces, eh?

>>113545251
Fukai is just 2maverick4JASDF

>>113545261
what kind of faggot air force is this

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>tfw no 4D waifu

>>113541860
Child chinese cartoons ever doing hard science fiction?
I don't think so.

>>113545219
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=burning+his+face+from+using+a+smartphone+while+charging

>>113544615
Until Yukikaze I did not know it was possible for someone to be gay for a plane.

>>113542281
This. There's a great critical essay on the film somewhere on the net that talks about how much Verhoeven hated the book (as well as noting how moronic all the military parts were for someone who had actually served).

>>113545241
The overall relationship between humans and Goa'uld over the course of the show was one of my favorite parts of it. At the start of it all the Goa'uld hadn't changed for thousands of years and started to think they were really untouchable gods and didn't take humans seriously. By the time they started to realize the humans on Earth were a threat, they couldn't easily crush them anymore and started to get dragged into more and more convoluted chains of events that just made them weaker and weaker.

Ba'al being the only one to realize fighting fire with fire was the best way to handle humans and sacrificing his own pride when it meant achieving a victory was the peak of that whole war.

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>>113545335
Planes are always referred to as female.

>>113545316
one day i had a thought; if you made a an AI, and raised in a virtual 4-spatial-dimensional world, it'd have no idea it was weird and assume 4d is the natural workings of the universe.

You could do the same for a human in a VR machine, of course, but it'd much more difficult

>>113543335
Stranger is a fucking aggravating read. The only reason I really even cared enough to get through it was because it was the book that kept the inventor of the water bed from getting a patent.

>>113545305
The kind that is out on an alien planet fighting aliens.

>>113542576
Maybe besides the lady becoming a bear.
>>113542890
But that literally happens to Faye.
>>113543722
Everything on Earth is stupid but everything in space is pretty hard sci-fi.

Supernatural anime > SciFi anime


Fite me

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>>113542119
>Gundam Wing
>Gundam Seed

>>113545335
>gay for a plane.
But Yukikaze is a grill

>>113545389
no

>>113545372
that's the worst excuse i've ever heard

>in an insanely high-stress situation that nobody's ever been in
>no coping mechanisms allowed