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How important is animation quality? Have...
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How important is animation quality? Have you ever dropped an anime solely because you didn't like how it looked?
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>>111374726
No but it's obvious when something is half assed or that it had no budget.

Also art style != animation quality. People seem to not understand this.
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Time for a thread full of ignorant replies.
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Animation quality doesn't mean shit.
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>>111376778
>animation quality doesn't mean shit
>watching anime
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>inb4 Ping Pong and Aku no Hana
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>>111374726
It's not as important as artstyle for a manga.
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Extremely. It's a visual medium. I've dropped several shows because they were ugly, don't feel bad at all.
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>>111374726
As long as the actual animation is decent, I don't really care too much for super smooth animation. I care much more about detailed illustrations, and good shading.

Anime has generally had inferior animation quality to a good deal of western works, yet I can't give a fuck about 90% of western animation, and the ones I do give a fuck about don't have Disney quality animation.

If anything, my interest in animation quality plateaus at a certain point because art style, illustration, plot, and setting are all more important.

I've never dropped for shit animation, but I have dropped for shit illustration. Like Persona 4 the Animation.
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>>111374726
that's me on Persona 4 - those soulless eyes, man...
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>>111376959
I watch maybe one anime a year.
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Oh boy, another thread where anons will confuse animation quality for art style.
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>>111377055
>super smooth animation
Smooth animation =/= Good animation
Smoohter animation =/= Better animation
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What do you think? I'm even angry that it's 2014 and animation below 25 frames per second is still prevalent.
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>>111377214
I think you're a faggot.
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Aku no Hana
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>>111377184
Also another thread where anons think that more frames = better animation.
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>>111374726
>How important is animation quality?

Not very.

>Have you ever dropped an anime solely because you didn't like how it looked?

Yes.
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>>111377253
I'm sure that has to be some kind of cross over mentality held by newfags playing games all their lives where it is drummed into them that a better system will run games at higher fps and that means the game looks better or something, not realising that doesn't apply in anime at all because the use of frames is often precisely controlled and throttled in high quality anime scenes to change the feeling of the movements being conveyed.
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>>111374726
Of course it's important. It's a fucking visual medium.
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>>111377408
So's manga, and I hope the animation quality doesn't stop you from reading manga.
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>>111377466
You don't read a TV show.
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>>111374726
Everytime someone mentions that I should watch Naruto, those fights look like complete and utter shit.
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Good animation is only necessary for fight scenes. It's a plus for anything else.
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>>111374726
I've dropped things because it's had shit animation, but generally I judge their animation quality against their budget.

>>111377466
lol
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>>111377466
I prefer the manga that
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>>111377538
Visual medium doesn't mean TV or animation.
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>>111377466
>and I hope the animation quality doesn't stop you from reading manga

Literally what?
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It's extremely important. I haven't dropped something just because of how it looked, but that's been my main factor in not liking shows sometimes.

Koi Kaze with good animation remake when
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>>111377656
Manga has pretty low animation quality for a visual medium, don't you think? Murata's been raising the bar a little, but I don't see it becoming a trend.
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>>111377348
>Not very.
Hold on a second. You're implying that your image backs up that statement, but I disagree. Yes, KMB was great, and yes, it looked really cheap and terrible. But I would argue that KMB was so good, not regardless of the shitty animation, but partly because of it. Animation quality does is important, but it's not a simple matter of higher-quality animation being better. The animation style and quality have to fit with the tone of the show and what it's trying to do.
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>>111377642
You are genuinely retarded or autistic. The difference I was highlighting is how you engage with the medium is completely different.
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>>111377999
Manga is still a visual medium.
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>>111377749
Visual Medium =/= animation.

Manga has art quality because it's about illustration. In fact, art is way more fundamental to manga than animation, isolated, is to anime.

I don't read manga that look ugly.
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>>111377839
I find it what I imagine to be a very /v/ mentality when people disconnect their assessment of animation from storytelling forgetting that is the entire point of the anime being there. Like people who play games complaining about how the graphics are shit or something.
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>>111378086
You seem to be missing the point here. I am going to assume autism. You engage with the medium differently depending on the context and thus it is expected to be different.
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>>111378104
Animation is not graphics, animation is not technology.

The visual elements of film, altogether, are as important as the story, and you can't have good film with just a good script.
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>>111377749
>Manga has pretty low animation quality
Is this bait?
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>>111378209
So find a word that describes what you mean instead of trying to wiggle your way out of it by talking stupid.
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>>111377249
This.
Really enjoyed the manga, took one look at how the anime was drawn and decided there was no way in hell I was going to watch it.
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>>111378227
They are all components of good storytelling, and good storytelling makes a good production.
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>>111378312
There is no need for a word. You watch anime, you read manga, you engage with the visual medium differently depnding on the context and thus different things are expected from it.
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>>111378327
No, not every element of a production has to be subordinate to storytelling.

Besides that, storytelling =/= story. If your show looks ugly, has no sense of audiovisual communication, and the characters don't emote properly because they're drawn like shit, your storytelling is awful, no matter how cool you thought the story was.
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>>111374726
Kill Me Baby

Made on Microsoft Powerpoint
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>>111378233
It's a joke, you dumbass autist. I was making fun of the guy who said that animation quality is important for visual media.
>>111378375
The fuck are you even talking about at this point?
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>>111374726
I kept watching Witchcraft Worcs because it had such an amazing animation.
A shame the plot was retarded and the main characters stupid
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>>111378432
Anon
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>>111378432
He didn't say that, you little ball of autism.

>Of course it's important. It's a visual medium
Subtext: Animation is part of the visual elements of anime. Anime is a visual medium. The visual elements of any given visual medium are important. Therefore, animation is important.

He didn't say that every single visual medium is related to animation, and neither did he imply it with his wording. It's all on you for lacking reading comprehension.
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>>111378093
>I don't read manga that look ugly.

This.
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>>111378418
I don't disgaree.

>f your show looks ugly, has no sense of audiovisual communication, and the characters don't emote properly because they're drawn like shit, your storytelling is awful, no matter how cool you thought the story was.

This is exactly what I meant when I said storytelling, you seem to have thought I meant how the plot elements were handled. Everything in the anime comes together for storytelling not just the plot.
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>>111378708
>>111378418
Also this is part of why I always say LoGH was a bad anime, it might aswell have been an audio book the visuals were there to literally show you what happened. No ambition or creative direction at all. Its like they were an after thought that had to be put there in order to sell it.
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>>111378708
What'd you say about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3-vsKwQ0Cg
Or this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rilk4RvyIOk

What is important in these? The storytelling? I don't think so.
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>>111378562
>it's important because it's a visual medium
can not, no matter how one bends the words, mean anything other than "animation is important for all visual medium (media?)." I don't even care, it was just a joke to point out that he may want to rephrase since the meanings of what he said and what he meant were completely different. "Animation medium," for example. Oil painting is a visual medium, and another one for which animation is quite secondary.
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>>111374726
You're talking about two different things, first you're talking about how good it's animated then you're talking about how it looks.
I still can't figure out how people watched and enjoyed something like KLK.
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>>111378432
>It's a joke, you dumbass autist. I was making fun of the guy who said that animation quality is important for visual media
I thought you were the same guy
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>>111378830
See he didn't say 'because'. He didn't equate the terms. I already explained to you how the sentence works.

Educate yourself.
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>>111378790
Are you meaning to imply that dots are not characters?
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>>111378860
Oh, sorry. My bad.
>>111378884
>it's important. It's a visual medium
The meaning is the same with or without "because." Why're you so anal about a single misuse of terms? Update your dictionary instead, be happy.
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>>111378790
I don't think you fully understand what "storytelling" means in the context of an audiovisual medium.
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Mononoke.
Those overly exaggerated facial expressions made me nauseous.
Also Ping Pong.

But I'll try to watch them once my shit tolerance rises.
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What about a show with a good story/plot, but bad animation or art style? Or viceversa?
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>>111378993
I think I do. I think you're stretching the term.
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>>111378969
It obviously goes further than that. There isn't even a plot, why, all of that was just masturbatory drawing for drawing's sake. There was no content at all in there, according to anon. Just watch how nicely the pictures move; they have no meaning.
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>>111379006
Tsubasa Chronicles.
It's not bad animation or art style it's just lack of it, there's lots of stills and things are very half assed.
Calling something bad is subjective anyways, only thing we can talk about when it comes to that is how there's lack of budget, you can go with a cheaper art style and it'll still look good (look at Kaiba, for example) but you've to make changes accordingly and make it feel right.
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>>111379036
What he meant is that how the characters look, how the world looks, how the characters move, etc, all add to the storytelling, but there has to be a plot there to begin with, a bunch of dots jumping around doesn't have a plot so it can't really be a story.
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>>111374726
Can we talk about bad VAs? God damn, Ghibli's movies suffer so much from this, anime is general doesn't but yeah, bad VAs ruin things way faster than a bad art style or bad animation.
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>>111379167
Meaning =/= Storytelling.

And, if you are really interested, that clip is from Mclaren's experimental phase where he was doing weird shit like scratching the animation into the film itself. He did the same with the sound. I don't think he intended Dots to be anything other than an amusing experiment where the dots move in funny ways. This doesn't mean it's hollow, bad or not worthy of being watched.

It's still not telling any story.

>>111379280
Yes, it's not a story. It's still animation, it's still art, and it's still pretty good to watch. Hence, you don't need storytelling to make a good work, and in works where a story -does- exist, it doesn't necessarily have to be the single focus of everything that goes into the work.
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>>111379390
>can we talk about bad voice actors in this thread about animation
Apparently someone thinks we can.
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>>111379415
>Hence, you don't need storytelling to make a good work
True, but I think that Anon was talking about how everything adds up to the storytelling, no one said there needs to be a story, you just can't deny that having a fitting art to a certain story doesn't add to it.
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>Is animation important in animated shows?
Oh, I don't fucking know.
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I dropped Ping Pong because it looked like shit.
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>>111379635
The first exchange was because I misunderstood him, but the rest of the argument was about storytelling. I never said storytelling can't be aided by every other element of the production, I simply said it's not the be-all-end-all of a work. It's not the only bar by which to judge whether a work that has a story is good or bad.

Most commercial anime (and film) are indeed focused on storytelling however, I never denied that.
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>>111378995
Ping Pong was great. I bet you think Aku no Hana was shit because they deviated from the standard anime style.
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>>111374726
>Have you ever dropped an anime solely because you didn't like how it looked?
I dropped Bakemonogatari for that reason.
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>>111379826
Anything audiovisual is conveying some idea to the viewer and thus storytelling regardless of wether there is a 'story' or not.
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dropped ping pong 5 minutes in because of it i don't care what you say, i have no regrets
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>>111379868
>Aku no Hana
It was shit even by rotoscoping standards.
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>>111379888
As I said, I think you're stretching the term far beyond its original usage in this discussion.

I don't disagree with this claim if you swap out the 'storytelling' part, but it's not the same discussion we were having. It's a semantic debate.
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Kill la Kill
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>>111379956
That is always the meaning of storytelling I was using.
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I dropped Nobunaga Concerto within the first few minutes because it looked odd, I can't describe it.
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>>111379878
How can you possibly dislike power point presentations with text?
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>>111374812
>>111374998
>>111377184
I thought you were joking, but god damn.
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>>111379868
I bet you think Aku no Hana was good just because they deviated from the standard anime style.
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I'm honestly about to drop JoJo because the artstyle feels so awkward for me... d-don't hate me guys..
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>>111380095
SHAFT is particularly aggravating because their shows have this pretense of being artsy and cool (courtesy of the need to ape Shinbo's style without Shinbo actually storyboarding anything) and they fail, but the uninformed fans -who would normally be completely oblivious to any sort of appreciating for directing, editing or visual creativity- latch on to SHAFT's shows because they're so aggressively 'different' you can't help but notice it. It's generally awful, but the retards want to feel deep by liking it.
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>>111380205
>but the retards want to feel deep by liking it.
Or maybe, anon, just maybe, they just like the way it looks.
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I use to be like that but then I watched Ping Pong and realized that animation really isn't all that after all.
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>>111380205
So you dropped Bakemonogatari because people you don't like liked it?
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>>111380205
>but the retards want to feel deep by liking it.

Sorry but I can't take you serious.
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>>111380205
I can never decide if Shinbo peaked directing hentai OVAs or with SZS.
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i dropped Claymore because i didnt like how it looked, it felt like i wasnt watching an anime but something else and i didnt like it. No regrets
>inb4 Claymore is amazing, watch it fgt
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>>111380205
They actually just like it for the tits, ass, and teeth.
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>>111374726
Last Fall I learnt I can deal with bad animation but plot/characters I like (KLK, Samumenco) but if the plot is garbage and I can't stand the characters I simply can't go on no matter how pretty the animation is (dropped KnK at the 3rd episode, and had to make a big effort to get that far)
So yeah bad animation isn't that much of an issue for me. Sometimes it's even charming. Artstyle is another story though.
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>>111380278
To clarify, do you mean animation or art style?

I'm a Yuasa fanboy and I have to admit the animation dropped at certain points (slideshow, noticeably less detail, etc.) though I never had any qualms about the art style (Matsumoto's.)
Part of why I like Yuasa though is even with constrained budgets, he makes QUALITY retain an element of playfulness, like the animators were having fun with things being off-model.
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>>111380205
If you look at something like this you can really see Shinbo's style was heavily inluenced by Dezaki and evolved out of that. I enjoy when people call Shinbo an Ikuhara rip-off when they are both just influenced heavily by Dezaki and had styles which developed form that in different directions.
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>>111374726
Code Geass, no shit.
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>>111374726
I dropped KMB because JC Staff gave it like a $200 budget.

Still read the manga though.
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>>111380784
>$200
I think you meant inferno cop
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>>111380205
>It's generally awful, but the retards want to feel deep by liking it.
O-ok, buddy.
SHAFT is about the only studio that is willing to take a risk, people respect them for that and they do a good job when they want to.
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I always appreciate good animation. But I can enjoy a show without it, like Sabagebu.

Bad animation is different than just cheap animation. Something like this is bad animation, even though it was clearly very expensive.
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>>111380668

http://aninomiyako.wordpress.com/2011/11/13/ikuhara-school-directors-utenas-legacy/

This is a cool article.
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>>111374726
No, on the contrary, I've dropped awful anime that has high production values and actually watched some that were good but had low budget.
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>>111381039
What do SHAFT take risks with? It sure isn't style or direction shinbo has been doing that the same since the early 2000s. It sure isn't with material or financial risk, almost all of their anime are adaptations they likely stand little to loose in due to the production committee system. SHAFT pretty much just whore shinbos style out to the highest bidder nowadays ain't nothing creative there.
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>>111381408
Shinbo should come back to storyboard and actually direct something hands-on.

Maybe all the copycats over at SHAFT would learn something from it, since Shinbo is actually pretty good when he works.
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I care about it as much as I care about graphics in video games. i.e. not at all
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>>111381475
I don't really think the idea is that they are copycats as much as Shinbo is supposed to be like a mentor to them in order to help them gain experience and develop future talent in direction while still maintaining the SHAFT visual identity. If you look at most of these directors they have previously had lower directorial roles like a few episodes in a series. So they seem to be testing them at the helm while still having shinbo holding their hand.
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>>111381988
Graphics in a video game is what I care about the most, I don't mind different art styles, as long as they look clean, but graphics can really turn me off from a game entirely, especially since most of the games being released nowadays aren't about a story or anything in particular it's just doing random things.
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>>111382172
>Graphics in a video game is what I care about the most
Not gameplay?

Really?

Then again, when I loved video games the most they largely looked like ass.
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I dropped medeka box because of it's art style.
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>>111382280
Gameplay obviously matters but not if it looks bad, I usually have a high tolerance for it though and can take most things.
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>>111380945
Inferno Cop was supposed to be ironically shitty, right?
I thought the whole idea was that they wanted to tell a ridiculous plot with a low-fidelity flash-tier still-image style.

Reading this over, I'm probably a Trigger drone
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>>111381182
Jesus, that webm is hilarious.
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>>111382524
They were pretty well aware of what they were doing.
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>>111381182
Is this the show that costs like 30 million each episode to make?
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>>111382608
Textbook example of "so bad it's good."
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>>111382685
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I would have dropped Ping Pong if the story and character development wasn't so good.
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>How important is animation quality?
Very, but not the be all end all

>Have you ever dropped an anime solely because you didn't like how it looked?
Not yet as so far, the shows I've watched where the animation quality was poor were either
1: Complete shit in all other categories, so weren't really the ultimate deciding factor
or
2: great in the other categories


I got used to Aku no Hana's artstyle, but disliked it for the dumb as shit unlikable characters
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Good animation can make a show, bad animation never breaks a show.
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Clannad, couldn't do it. I wanted to thrash out my eyes.
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>>111381182
Wouldn't it be more accurate to label that poor direction or poor choreography? I think it looks fine, but damn is it boring.
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>>111382993
You've those switched, and replace can with can't.
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>>111383013
>poor direction or poor choreography
It was directly lifted from Utena.
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>>111382826
>unions
>unions everywhere
>said buzz lightyear
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>>111383084
>bad animation can't make a show, good animation never breaks a show
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>>111382993
>bad animation never breaks a show.

Sure it can. Good animation can also not make a show if it's really that bad. There's more than enough examples of well animated shows that are simply terrible.

Good animation can be appreciated even apart from the show's overall quality, though. "Bad" animation can also result in great gag comedy, or can also result in botched serious action scenes that just ruin the intended effect.
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>>111383183
Good animation does not necessarily make a good show, but it can. Bad animation alone can't make a show bad, but it doesn't help an otherwise already bad show.
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Goddamn, some frames and sequences of Zeta Gundam were absolute shit.
Still stuck to it though.
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>>111383179
Yes, what's wrong with that?
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>>111383356
I never said it was wrong, I just switched it like you said.
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>>111383258
>Bad animation alone can't make a show bad, but it doesn't help an otherwise already bad show.
Actual bad animation can break a show, cheap animation can't and by cheap I mean having a low budget and knowing how to manage it in a way that you'll barely notice, having characters slide from one side of the screen to the other isn't cheap, it's bad.
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>>111383384
Sorry, I take greentext like that with a grain of salt.
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>>111383449
Understandable.
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>>111374726
Nearly dropped Dog & Scissors ebcause the art was atrocious. There were so many reasons to drop that show, but I still watched it all the way to the end.

3/10 at best, would not recommend to anyone.
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>>111383104

It was very poorly lifted from Utena. They didn't do it right. Most likely, just like Adventure Time and series like that, it was only storyboarded by westerners and then shipped off to korean studios who do all the animation for it, so they probably botched the timings for the storyboarding. Because even with all the frames, it still feels too slow and has amateur camerawork. I mean, even some super budget anime has some more competent stuff, even when it's hilariously cheap.
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>>111383104
Oh yeah. Now I remember you, we talked about this like a month ago.
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>>111383579
That was someone else. I don't come here much.
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haven't really been motivated to keep watching chaika because it all looks so bland
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>>111377381
Except for the part where low framerate animations make it look like things are just teleporting from place to place, but I'm sure that's part of the artist's vision and totally necessary for the "showfeel".
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Let's all love Lain
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>>111383668
I don't believe you.
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>>111383668
Once a month isn't very often.
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>>111374726
I dropped once an anime because the mc girl had short hair and looked like a guy.

I just dislike those type of girls. I drop those animes instantly.
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>>111383258
I will stick with a bad show sometimes if it has good animation in enough quantity, but I rarely if ever drop a show for bad animation alone usually it would be in combination with something else bad enough to drop for alone almost at least.

>>111383307
I watched it directly after 0079 so Zeta looked positively high quality after that.
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>>111383766

This was supposed to be for the webm thread but I guess this works too.

>>111383766

Most shows aren't like that. And sometimes that "teleportation" is perfectly fitting for certain movements, like here during the muzzle flashes.
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>>111383735
It completely depends on context and anyone with a modicum of understanding of animation in a wider context than 'needs to be smooth' can spot the difference between a scene that has been animated poorly and cheaply and one that has been animated well while not breaking the bank. Techniques can be used when you have competent animators and have been developed in anime to maintain and enhance even the ability to convey the right feeling in motion through variable frame rates. You can animate something awfully at 24fps or at 8-12 likewise you can do it well in both niether is superior it all depends on the skill of the animator, the context and the movement that is being illustrated.
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The only thing that I won't watch because of the art/animation quality are CGI and Problem Solvers-tier color palettes.

Anything else I shitcan is just bad.
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>>111383981

0079 was really bad.
I liked it when they got that new purple space explosion in the later episodes, and then used it over and over again.
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>>111384187

Also flash. If you're going to go with shitty puppetry at least make it look nice.
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>>111384187
>color palettes
I had to drop NGNL because of its obnxious tumblr gif filters on every fucking scene.
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>>111383165
Kikes jewing kikes.
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