If you start modeling today, what would you choose, and why?
Yes i've read the sticky more than once tho.
I'm looking foward to improve my skills in 3D , i already know Rhino which i can say is a complete piece of shit but hey it was the only think I learned in college (my teacher seemed to know less than me kek)
Here's why I don't like Rhino , I don't master de software but I feel like every step I do is destructive and if I need to ajust something later like a fillet or something I had do do it again instead of simply adjust its radius. I feel like working with rhino is like moving two steps foward and one backwards.
I want to get to know 3D better to achieve some realistic vizualizations for example advertising and stuff. I believe I could never achieve something like this in Rhino for example
If i wanted to put those ice cubes (MassFX) i would had to do it manually on Rhino...
I want something that could be good to model some mockups (to render and do some mockups like those you see in creative market / graphic river).
I also have a slight interest in ArchViz and car modeling, I don't have interest in animation yet.
3DsMax always seemed the way to go because it has tons of documentation, lots of modifiers, lots of plugins but I've read rumors (also here in /3/) that autodesk is ditching that shit, I don't want to start learning something that takes years to master if it's already in it's deathbed.
Maya, I have a friend that started with Max and now moved to Maya he says he is not turning back, he told me if he was starting now he would go directly to Maya. (I never opened Maya in my life)
Cinema 4D, well can't say much about it.. I've seen pretty cool things modeled and rendered with it , I liked the clean aspect of the renders to fit into /gd/ but maybe its just the render engine.. I have no ideia how it is in terms of modelling etc.
Sorry for the long post..
Fuck if I know. I love each program so much. They have their strengths/weaknesses. Can't really stick to one, tbqh.
Max for modelling.
Maya for rigging/animation.
Cinema for vfx.
I'm proficient/experienced with all 3 and can't do without them.
If I were just starting, there is no way in hell I'd go near an Autodesk product. They are going subscription only next month. That's just my opinion though.
Your stated needs are:
>some realistic vizualizations for example advertising and stuff
>I want something that could be good to model some mockups
>slight interest in ArchViz and car modeling
If you are going to be working freelance, I would go with Modo. It's a great modeler and has one of the better out-of-the-box rendering engines out there.
If you are dead set on one of those three, or you want to work for a production house rather than do freelance work, go with Maya. It's expensive as fuck ($185/month, or $1,470 per year), but it's the most used by various professional production houses.
I really do urge you to consider Modo though. It's a solid tool and inexpensive compared to the others ($1799 for a perpetual license, with a steep price break on upgrades).
Is autodesk going to support both products equally into the future forever? Surely they'll eventually just pick whichever one makes them the most money and quietly let the other fade into oblivion
Nearly all of the 2016 features were simply features copied from what was given to Maya the year before or even years before. Maya has become their primary platform, and they have positioned 3DS Max to be killed off. The past 2 years of updates have primarily been things from Maya's code base. The biggest thing Max got was a hastily put together GUI wrapper for the MaxScript system so you could use nodes with it. Whoopedy doo, I'm sure that took a lot of dev time.
These are the exact same signs we saw with Softimage. They've also killed off Mudbox, and guess where that code is going? Into Maya, not Max.
When you watch the interviews about Max 2015 and 2016 launches on Youtube, you see how dead the single dev they talk to is, he has no enthusiasm. All the while they promote the shit out of Maya with tonnes of videos and enthusiastic presenters.
If I started today, I would use blender. But the question is really determined by "why are you starting today?" where you want to be once you've become proficient in a given tool really determines what tool you should choose
Try them all, even Blender
>but Blender is shit!
It's only shit by default, you need to tweak the ever living fuck out of all the default settings on everything and save a proper Startup file (with all your tweaks), then you're good.
What it mostly lacks is pre-built / easy access libraries of HDRIs, shaders, etc. All of which you can find on various websites but it's not all pre-assembled for you
I haven't touched Max so I can't offer an opinion on the program.
Cinema is extremely easy to pick up the fundamentals and is an industry standard for Motion Graphics.
Learning Cinema will make learning Maya a lot easier. Maya is primarily used for Rigging and Animation as there tool set is phenomenal.
I personalty use both for different workflows.
Cinema 4D- Knocking out a quick project.
Maya- High Detail, complex project
1. I would start by learning about box-modelling with Max and perhaps learn Maya for platform flexibility (Maya -> OSX, Windows & Max -> Windows only...) and animation.
2. Find a good source for tutorials on the software, I prefer digitaltutors.com (or pluralsight how they're now called). You pay a couple bucks a month, but there's a ton of good content for Max and Maya on there.
3. Would especially recommend also investing time in learning about a fast third party renderer like V-Ray. This will take your ability to present work of quality quickly.
4. One big thing that isn't covered by either Max or Maya is proper softbody particle FX & fluid dynamics. (only with addition of expensive plugins/external software like Krakatoa and RealFlow). I would therefore suggest you also consider learning Houdini instead of Maya. It is a completely different program (procedural all the way) but it is also a strong name in the industry and has an awesome FX suite included.
5. Good luck, stick with it and take things one step at a time. Enjoy the process of learning and try to find a way to make money with your hobby early on, it's a great incentive to learn more.
You don't actually have to be at a school to get these free additions. You can simply put in "Home school" or even "N/A". They don't check it, it's automatic.
>they are nowhere near $5000 anymore.
Maya perpetual license in the US: $4300
Max perpetual license in the US: $4300
C4D perpetual license in the US: $3695
Autodesk products like Max and May cost MUCH more outside of the US. Last I heard it was something like $6995.
In Europe the perpetual licenses go for about the same as in US. But who cares about perpetual licenses these days, the subscription model is awesome. You pay like 200 euro's a month for Max when you need it, then if you don't you just temporarily pause the subscription.
Of course when you're just learning, no one will care if you get your hands on an "educational" license. Just make sure you subscribe and pay the price when you make stuff that you sell, it's a good thing to learn early to play by the rules when you're in business.
Autodesk doesn't let you register a used license. They actually say that acquiring a license that way is the same as piracy in their eyes, because licenses cannot be transferred between users, except for one very specific exception: if you sell a company that owns perpetual licenses, the licenses can be sold as part of your assets.
yeah, piracy laws are fucking crazy here in the US. Basically, software companies have cart blanche to go as fucking nuts as they like with their EULA, and courts say 'yep, keep up the good work'.
Yeah that's definitely a downside, but could be worked around by using multiple computers for work and home (a good idea anyways when getting more professional).
You should look at this more from a business perspective. The subscription cost will simply be a cost of doing business, you take it into consideration before taking on a project. If you just want to do hobbywork I see no reason why you would need a real license, but if you want to make money doing 3D it is important to understand that the tools will be part of the cost of you making a product.
I guess I am just old fashioned, but I can't get used to the subscription model for software. I especially don't like subscription only. I would honestly rather pay a few grand for a perpetual license than to consistently make a payment each month. That's part of why I try my best to never borrow money.
It's enough to make a man seriously consider going FOSS only.
But with subscription, it's much cheaper in the long run if you'd like to actually have up to date, industry standard tools that are being worked on full-time by paid programmers, and also provided true technical support for the software.
Given the cost of a year long Maya subscription is somewhere around 1/4 that of a perpetual license, by the time you accrued the cost of a perpetual license, you'd have wanted to upgrade to a newer version anyways... At least during all those years you got to be constantly up to date and taken care of.
I learned Maya & Max at a course I did, but where I work right now they use C4D, I'm currently looking up tutorials to get up to speed with it and get down to doing actual work asap.
So far I'm liking the interface and the way modifiers work in C4D, and I heard that it's great for VFX (which is what we mostly do anyway) so I'm looking forward to learning it. It just was kind of a surprise to be thrown at C4D instead of Max or Maya.
Yeah it's definitely a benefit of having up-to-date software at any point in time, although plugins make up for a lot for people that buy.
Well to each their own comforts of course, but it seems to me you're confusing debt and rent. When borrowing money, you take on liability because you sign up for a monthly payment over a couple years in exchange for ownership over the asset (software).
When you rent something however, you pay each month for the use of the software without having ownership over it, but you gain the freedom to stop the contract within a reasonable amount of time. (so there is no liability)
Subscription model software improves flexibility and in the world of software where products can change significantly in a period of a couple of years, it makes a lot of sense.
i would choose blender
no, its not the most feature packed suite there is
it only got 2 render engine that are weak in comparison to vray/mental ray
the UI is bad but with a little bit of effort you can change all the settings to resemble max
now far as modeling goes, it does everything i want. ultimately it comes down to your modeling skills. UV's are not bad either, if you arrange the mess blender project they are good as many pro plugin out there.
that being said i i wouldn't use blender for anything else but modeling, i know there are people that get the best out of cycles and sculpt mode but its when you push it to the limit.
there are other flaws like edge split that is simply isn't needed, you can make the smoothing groups yourself.
texture painting don't have edge padding (i could be wrong) would nice if it had it
but far as capabilities there is nothing too different about it when comparing it to other programs
>no, its not the most feature packed suite there is
technically it is, 3dmodelling programs-wise it isn't
>it only got 2 render engine that are weak in comparison to vray/mental ray
can't not agree
>the UI is bad but with a little bit of effort you can change all the settings to resemble max
pov dependable, I love Blender's UI, it's the best ui/control scheme I've ever used.
Blender is also great for animation, it handles mocap very well, it has action clips, very nice simple IK system, constraints system, uses the bullet physics engine. Also commercial renderers ship to blender nowadays. vray, renderman, octane.
>>it only got 2 render engine that are weak in comparison to vray/mental ray
>Also commercial renderers ship to blender nowadays. vray, renderman, octane.
So it has many render engines available including the industry leaders? Not just 2.
Yeah, but we were talking about commercial renderers. In my eyes, if a company that commercially sells render engines ports it to be available in Blender, they consider Blender to be usable software. Maybe they like the UI and control scheme, maybe they like that it's an open-source software. I personally love blender's UI and control scheme and abundance of free tutorials.
I am a longtime C4d user, and i am pissed at Maxon for beeing such lame assholes, because as it is now: Blender has better and more precise modelling tools than C4d.
Blender is a good generalist, but in some aspects in can beat commercial DCCs.
Blenders Nodebased Material system is much more flexible than C4ds Material system, but the latter spits out good renders faster.
But back to topic: If you want to model you should take a look at Modo.
Mesh fusion alone should be reason enough.
I'd choose Maya, even if I've somehow got into a car accident and lost all my 3D skills, I'd still pick Maya
Ignore posts that tell you to get Max and Maya, or learn more than 1 software which does the same thing at a time, because that's probably the stupidest thing I've heard in my life.
I could do everything from blocking to hi-res modelling to animation to rendering all within Maya, I don't understand why you go in between softwares when Maya does it all by itself (Except sculpting and texturing, which I personally use ZBrush and Photoshop)
If Maya was taken away from me however, I'd probably go with Blender, since it seems pretty decent as well; However I'll need to be prepared for whatever software a company might use if I get a job, since Blender is rarely used in actual production and would probably go for proprietary shit instead of Blender. But really, it's a good starting point for the essentials, which you can use in other software eventually.
i'd go maya because it's the most used and most convenient to land a job, although i love max and think the hate it gets is widely undeserved and comes from people who simply are not trained in it and won't make the effort to learn how it works.
In particular in the rigging department which is usually were people end the argument in favor of maya, i'm a max rigger and i've yet to find something maya does that max can't. Max is still my software of choice for small sized projects (short films, commercials). I Aknowledge however that maya is easier to build an heavy production pipeline with
How good is the scripting integration in 3Ds max ?
In maya, you could do everything from the script editor.
The echo commands features is also very nice to understand what goes on under the hood.
it's okay, i don't script on maya so i can't compare but I can do pretty much all i need with maxscript. dotNet works well and is pretty nice for custom dynamic UIs (the one good point for max being only available on windows i guess). I don't use python but those who do think its integration in max is not good enough as of now to rely on it too much though.